Dave's Four Wheel Camper Flatbed Project: Zephyrus

[Trump]

I don't know... I feel like there may be a bit of merit to bags. Let's be honest here. A 10000 plus pound vehicle, that does not have suspension like a Unimog, is going to be limiting for technical terrain. @Dave knows this moving from his rather famous Tacoma. The focus was getting the family out and serving as the base camp for other recreational activities. I don't feel like a properly set up air bag system would ever be a cause for denying him from getting to that basecamp location.

Meanwhile, the concept of onboard air and individually controlled airbags could provide an excellent opportunity to level the camper. I'm always having to maneuver a vehicle half the size/weight of this one into a spot that provides a level sleeping position. Something tells me that doing the same in a full-size will be even less enjoyable. In the end, we are trying to fix sag here, not make it hang on the trail with his previous vehicle. That would be an unrealistic goal. Additionally, there are probably thousands of systems, sensors, and gadgets on the truck. Making an argument for keeping it simple is laughable given that the "simple" ship already sailed the moment the truck left the lot.

I agree custom coils would be the best/sexy option, but honestly, the better option IMO would have been avoiding coils and going with the 3500. Leaf springs are easier to have custom built for their application.

 

[Dave]

I agree custom coils would be the best/sexy option, but honestly, the better option IMO would have been avoiding coils and going with the 3500. Leaf springs are easier to have custom built for their application.

Yes, perhaps. But all things are a compromise. The five-link/coil suspension on the Ram 2500 provides far better handling and ride, with better articulation over obstacles.

Coils cost more to make than leaf springs (which is why most trucks are using leaf springs) but coils weigh less than ginormous Hotchkiss style leaf spring assemblies.

Yes, leaf packs are stupid simple and reliable. But they have their drawbacks as well. So I'm quite happy to be the one to crack the code on this and dial in the 2500 to fit my needs. After all, the real difference between the 2500 SRW and the 3500 SRW really is just the sticker on the door and the rear springs

 

[Dave]

I don't know... I feel like there may be a bit of merit to bags. Let's be honest here. A 10000 plus pound vehicle, that does not have suspension like a Unimog, is going to be limiting for technical terrain.

Agreed. And I think the sweet spot in all the options here may be a mix of properly rated coils, bags, bumpstops and shocks all working together.

I'm researching ALL the options now

 

[El Coyote]

What we have did for a similar flatbed/camper set up we built on another 2016 Dodge Ram 2500 6.7 with an AEV lift kit was to use the Airlift 5000 kit and the Daystar cradles. This allows for the air spings to support the additional load while still being to separate from the axle when drooping so as to prevent air spring damage. Works brilliantly.

 

[Trump]

Yes, perhaps. But all things are a compromise. The five-link/coil suspension on the Ram 2500 provides far better handling and ride, with better articulation over obstacles.

Coils cost more to make than leaf springs (which is why most trucks are using leaf springs) but coils weigh less than ginormous Hotchkiss style leaf spring assemblies.

Yes, leaf packs are stupid simple and reliable. But they have their drawbacks as well. So I'm quite happy to be the one to crack the code on this and dial in the 2500 to fit my needs. After all, the real difference between the 2500 SRW and the 3500 SRW really is just the sticker on the door and the rear springs

Maybe it's just me, but I've never had a problem with the leaf packs in back of the Tacoma giving a harsh ride. I think that factors heavily into my opinion on the benefit of coils with a similar concept (i.e. camper/gear in the back and passengers up front). Is going with coils worth the trouble? I guess we will see. Either way, I think there is little doubt that you'll be able to dial it in and be satisfied with the result. The two of us rarely take the easy road... I will long for your coils while I'm driving the 70.

What we have did for a similar flatbed/camper set up we built on another 2016 Dodge Ram 2500 6.7 with an AEV lift kit was to use the Airlift 5000 kit and the Daystar cradles. This allows for the air spings to support the additional load while still being to separate from the axle when drooping so as to prevent air spring damage. Works brilliantly.

These Daystar cradles would be the route I would take if I were in this position. The only thing I have wondered about is the wear on the cups when dirt and grime gets in between them.

 

[Dave]

Maybe it's just me, but I've never had a problem with the leaf packs in back of the Tacoma giving a harsh ride.

BIG difference in leaf packs going from what we know in the "Tacoma World" and the mongo leaves on a 3500. A massively stiffer spring set. So for me, I think the coils will be worth it as that massively stiffer leaf spring set would/could just plain suck off road.

 

[Dave]

Moving forward, I've met with Icon and discussed this at length with Mario and we've decided to go with the Air Lift 5000 bags and Daystar cradles as Mario showed above. 2 inch coil spacers and new sway bar links will be from Icon, and I'm already using their way overbuilt adjustable rear track bar. So we're basically mimicking the setup Mario used on the other Ram 2500 but using Icon parts instead of AEV.

 

[smlobx]

Moving forward, I've met with Icon and discussed this at length with Mario and we've decided to go with the Air Lift 5000 bags and Daystar cradles as Mario showed above. 2 inch coil spacers and new sway bar links will be from Icon, and I'm already using their way overbuilt adjustable rear track bar. So we're basically mimicking the setup Mario used on the other Ram 2500 but using Icon parts instead of AEV.

I like this idea!
I have been contemplating the 5000 bags on my F-350 primarily due to the fact that the Hallmark is not permanently mounted so when empty the ride will return to normal.
5000# will give you plenty of support.

I am still thinking about onboard air as someone mentioned above you could use the bags (if plumbed separately) to balance the rig once set up for the night.

Please post pictures!

One last question....what is it about the Daystar cradles that makes them so special?

 

[MotoDave]

One last question....what is it about the Daystar cradles that makes them so special?

They keep you from doing this:

A general heads up on the Airlift 5000 bags - they aren't constructed the same as Firestones, rather than metal top/bottom caps they use plastic, and as you can see its possible to pull the thread inserts right out if you aren't using something like the Daystar cradle to let the bag extend freely. I don't know for sure that a firestone bag with metal ends would have done any better.

I went with the airlfit bags to retain a physical bump stop in case the bag fails, as the firestone bags (in some applications, like my tundra) remove the factory bump stop.

I'll be trying out the Daystar cradles once I get the replacement airbag from Airlift (their warranty wa very good about this).

 

[bob91yj]

^^^^Pics don't work.

 

[Dave]

Let's get this rear suspension sorted out

 

[Dave]

Out with the old and in with the new: adding Icon 2 inch coil spacers and Air Lift 5000's with Daystar cradles.

 

[bob91yj]

Is the shock on top of the differential stock, or an aftermarket attempt at controlling axle wrap? I wouldn't think wrap would be an issue with a link suspension.,

 

[MotoDave]

^^^^Pics don't work.

Stupid google.

Maybe fixed, maybe not.

I really need a new image host.

 

[BlkWgn]

Is the shock on top of the differential stock, or an aftermarket attempt at controlling axle wrap? I wouldn't think wrap would be an issue with a link suspension.,

Factory set up

 

[bob91yj]

With the links, there can't be much movement there, obviously enough that the factory felt it was needed.

 

[Dave]

With the links, there can't be much movement there, obviously enough that the factory felt it was needed.

That shock on top of the diff is a Power Wagon item and not on any other truck. PW's are known (per CJC Offroad) to have some axle hop issues front and rear.

 

[BlkWgn]

That shock on top of the diff is a Power Wagon item and not on any other truck. PW's are known (per CJC Offroad) to have some axle hop issues front and rear.

never had an issue with axle hop up front, but the rear end is crazy. I think that is the biggest issue with the 3rd gen wagons

 

[bob91yj]

Leaf springs on Jeeps are known for axle wrap, link suspensions don't usually suffer from that malady. Interesting that they still use it. (Brands other than what I drive are always a learning experience for me, never too old to learn something new...but I'm getting close!)

 

[Dave]

Meanwhile back at CJC Offroad, things are coming together.