Toyota Rant (or snivvel)

[BMThiker]

I have a first model year FJC and it's known problems were the brittle factory 8" Ring gears, inner fender bulge/rip from body flex, and with age the "no maintenance" transmission would develop a shudder (fluid swap fixes this). Idler pulleys are known to not last very long if they get dunked in water a lot because the seals are not great. There is a TSB on the tension pulley but the fix was only to add a flat "fender" washer in front of it and a slightly longer bolt.

Never had a driveshaft issue and mine's seen some abuse. I've replaced a number of u-joints on mine under general maintenance.

Toyota never officially issued a TSB on the ring gear, probably because 95% of them never saw offroad and will never experience enough load to break them. They fixed mine for free twice under the 60K warranty, but it took a lot of cajoling.

I never took the fender bulge (mine are now ripped through) to the dealer because I've read enough online testimony to know that battle will never be won. This was an inherent issue with the ancestor of the FJC, the Prado series too. TEQ did nothing officially to fix the Prado's fender rips, but passed that engineering flaw onto the FJC.

I recently swapped the fluid in my transmission and got rid of the torque converter shudder. Just dropped pan, clean the screen and put 5qts back in. There are a few more steps during the refill process, but its a 1 banana (if not messy) job.

 

[Dave]

Bob I'm not blaming Dana, I said they make the shafts and it's on Toyota to make it right. FWIW, most of the reports of this issue are on non-lifted trucks. The bottom line here is that Toyota's rep for quality is slipping as is their rep for standing behind their product (see above on FJ body rips - ridiculous).

Toyota has always done me right and my truck has been solid. But, my next rig will most likely be a Jeep, Dodge or Chevy because I'm not happy with the direction of the company or it's customer support. Coming from a long time Toyota fan that says volumes.

If I buy a Duramax we'll have to talk

 

[Dave]

I have a first model year FJC and it's known problems were the brittle factory 8" Ring gears, inner fender bulge/rip from body flex, and with age the "no maintenance" transmission would develop a shudder (fluid swap fixes this). Idler pulleys are known to not last very long if they get dunked in water a lot because the seals are not great. There is a TSB on the tension pulley but the fix was only to add a flat "fender" washer in front of it and a slightly longer bolt.

Never had a driveshaft issue and mine's seen some abuse. I've replaced a number of u-joints on mine under general maintenance.

Toyota never officially issued a TSB on the ring gear, probably because 95% of them never saw offroad and will never experience enough load to break them. They fixed mine for free twice under the 60K warranty, but it took a lot of cajoling.

I never took the fender bulge (mine are now ripped through) to the dealer because I've read enough online testimony to know that battle will never be won. This was an inherent issue with the ancestor of the FJC, the Prado series too. TEQ did nothing officially to fix the Prado's fender rips, but passed that engineering flaw onto the FJC.

I recently swapped the fluid in my transmission and got rid of the torque converter shudder. Just dropped pan, clean the screen and put 5qts back in. There are a few more steps during the refill process, but its a 1 banana (if not messy) job.

Thanks for sharing your FJ experience

 

[augie]

So I take it from this thread, I'm better off keeping my gen 1 Tacoma and just keep repairing it.

 

[Rexsname]

I've only got 331,000 miles on my 2001 Tacoma so I barely feel qualified to comment but..........I'm going to keep mine. Yep! Not going to trade it in on a new one. REX

 

[augie]

Rex, you got me beat, my 95 only has 210,000, plan is to put another 100,000 on it.

 

[CLynn85]

Negatron ghost rider. My Tacoma is smaller than an F150, and the 4WD is not a push button it's a dial - flawless function since Feb 2005 with THOUSANDS of off road miles

Wish this was the case for myself and several others, but the fact is that the system is way more complicated than it needs to be and failure-prone as a result. The only reason it isn't just a lever is because of their decision to build a specific mid-size truck for the American market. Not that I 100% blame them, but it's just plain annoying.

 

[Dave]

So I take it from this thread, I'm better off keeping my gen 1 Tacoma and just keep repairing it.

YMMV. There's a point in vehicle ownership where some reach the point of diminishing returns i.e. you may get sick of wrenching or repairing. Some guys do while others enjoy the work - we know a guy that drives a '51 Chevy truck to the Yukon/Alaska every season, he'll probably never buy a new rig

Me, I love the Tacoma and love Toyota but I'm peeved with the direction they're taking in NA. They have nothing that competes with the JK or a 4x4 3/4 ton US diesel truck. New 4Runner or Tundra you say? Close but no cigar IMO.

It's like they're giving up what made them great and that sucks - no doubt based on pen pushers and bean counters prognostications.

 

[CLynn85]

Me, I love the Tacoma and love Toyota but I'm peeved with the direction they're taking in NA. They have nothing that competes with the JK or a 4x4 3/4 ton US diesel truck. New 4Runner or Tundra you say? Close but no cigar IMO.

It's like they're giving up what made them great and that sucks - no doubt based on pen pushers and bean counters prognostications.

+1. Toyota is definitely losing its way. If it wasn't for steep competition internationally and a more connected world, they would be following the path GM did in the early 90's to a tee.

 

[TangoBlue]

YMMV. There's a point in vehicle ownership where some reach the point of diminishing returns i.e. you may get sick of wrenching or repairing. Some guys do while others enjoy the work - we know a guy that drives a '51 Chevy truck to the Yukon/Alaska every season, he'll probably never buy a new rig

Me, I love the Tacoma and love Toyota but I'm peeved with the direction they're taking in NA. They have nothing that competes with the JK or a 4x4 3/4 ton US diesel truck. New 4Runner or Tundra you say? Close but no cigar IMO.

It's like they're giving up what made them great and that sucks - no doubt based on pen pushers and bean counters prognostications.

+1. Toyota is definitely losing its way. If it wasn't for steep competition internationally and a more connected world, they would be following the path GM did in the early 90's to a tee.

You guys echo my thoughts as well. What's discouraging is they have the capacity to make the vehicles we desire, they just don't market them here in the US... anything that says "70-series."

But I also have to pile-on with Augie and Rex's sentiment - I'll hang on to my first gen a little longer. Not that too much is very OEM anymore...

 

[Mr. Leary]

YMMV. There's a point in vehicle ownership where some reach the point of diminishing returns i.e. you may get sick of wrenching or repairing. Some guys do while others enjoy the work - we know a guy that drives a '51 Chevy truck to the Yukon/Alaska every season, he'll probably never buy a new rig

Me, I love the Tacoma and love Toyota but I'm peeved with the direction they're taking in NA. They have nothing that competes with the JK or a 4x4 3/4 ton US diesel truck. New 4Runner or Tundra you say? Close but no cigar IMO.

It's like they're giving up what made them great and that sucks - no doubt based on pen pushers and bean counters prognostications.

During my recent vehicle purchase process, once the decision to go to a full sized 4x4 was made, I was choosing between Dodge and Ford. The Tundra didn't even make the list. However, even if a crew cab 70 series pickup was available here, it would have a tough time competing with what the American companies are bringing nowadays. I believe that we are about to experience a second generation of "pinnacle overland vehicles" with the market led by Crysler this time around. Chevy and Nissan are about to step up their product offerings to play their hand. Ford is already in the game but I don't expect them to ever be a market leader since they dominate the market elsewhere.

Where is Toyota in all this? They have the solid, but aging, Tacoma / 4Runner platform and the Tundra, both of which are now technologically behind the 8 ball. If I were at the helm of Toyota in the US, I would be throwing everything I had at getting a small, efficient diesel into the next generation of these platforms and a bigger one in the Tundra. Spending some time and effort to get QC back to priority status and making tough, dependable, efficient trucks is what established Toyota's presence in this market in the first place. To compete with the forthcoming new diesel JK, Chevy (and possibly Nissan) compact pickups, Toyota would have to bring a factory locked Tacoma or 4Runner that returned 30+mpg on the highway. To compete with Dodge and Nissan diesel 1/2 tons and existing Ford and Dodge 3/4 ton trucks, the Tundra needs a diesel that can exceed 20mpg unloaded on the highway and tow up to 10k lbs. I think they can do it, as they aren't too far away now with the D4D overseas for the little trucks. Questions are, will Toyota pursue a diesel path in their trucks and hybrid gas in their cars (to which they are already deeply committed)? Will Nissan position a new diesel Frontier to directly compete with Toyota in the light truck market?

I hope to see a lot of competition over the next 10-15 years... Cuz that's when I plan to be looking for a new vehicle again.

 

[Dave]

During my recent vehicle purchase process, once the decision to go to a full sized 4x4 was made, I was choosing between Dodge and Ford. The Tundra didn't even make the list. However, even if a crew cab 70 series pickup was available here, it would have a tough time competing with what the American companies are bringing nowadays. I believe that we are about to experience a second generation of "pinnacle overland vehicles" with the market led by Crysler this time around. Chevy and Nissan are about to step up their product offerings to play their hand. Ford is already in the game but I don't expect them to ever be a market leader since they dominate the market elsewhere.

Where is Toyota in all this? They have the solid, but aging, Tacoma / 4Runner platform and the Tundra, both of which are now technologically behind the 8 ball. If I were at the helm of Toyota in the US, I would be throwing everything I had at getting a small, efficient diesel into the next generation of these platforms and a bigger one in the Tundra. Spending some time and effort to get QC back to priority status and making tough, dependable, efficient trucks is what established Toyota's presence in this market in the first place. To compete with the forthcoming new diesel JK, Chevy (and possibly Nissan) compact pickups, Toyota would have to bring a factory locked Tacoma or 4Runner that returned 30+mpg on the highway. To compete with Dodge and Nissan diesel 1/2 tons and existing Ford and Dodge 3/4 ton trucks, the Tundra needs a diesel that can exceed 20mpg unloaded on the highway and tow up to 10k lbs. I think they can do it, as they aren't too far away now with the D4D overseas for the little trucks. Questions are, will Toyota pursue a diesel path in their trucks and hybrid gas in their cars (to which they are already deeply committed)? Will Nissan position a new diesel Frontier to directly compete with Toyota in the light truck market?

I hope to see a lot of competition over the next 10-15 years... Cuz that's when I plan to be looking for a new vehicle again.

Agree 100% Mike. Chrysler seems to be very astute lately when it comes to bringing the right products to market. And quality/fit/finish is WAY up across the Big Three.

Good choice on the full size, my next rig will be a fullsize Ram or a JK. We'll see which wins, but first I have to get Mitch to buy my Tacoma

 

[TangoBlue]

...my next rig will be a fullsize Ram or a JK. We'll see which wins, but first I have to get Mitch to buy my Tacoma

Good luck with that Dave. Your recent experience with the Dental Corps will prove invaluable. Extracting teeth will seem far easier...

 

[TangoBlue]

Competition based on what standard though? I think it's about choice - what you desire in a vehicle and of course, perceived value.

No argument that today's modern trucks exhibit amazing levels of comfort and technology. These vehicles now come equipped with every luxury and interior space I expect to see in many luxury vehicles and family vans.

To that extent, manufacturers have correctly assessed the majority of American consumers desired characteristics to suit their driving demands. They have a smoother faster ride as their advanced, tuned suspensions absorb any feel of the road. But I, and lot of us, represent the minority of consumers who are looking for a bare-bones, rugged vehicle that's capable of supporting in-the-field maintenance and repair.

For approximately $40K I can purchase a 1 or 2 year old HZJ76 with my desired characteristics* to support my intended purpose... the only other product that can come close to that is the Dodge Ram "Power Wagon" package and that is with a gas engine.

You can argue my requirements can be easily met by offerings from the "Big 3," but they can't come close to meeting the iconic styling of the wagon or troopy versions of the 76-series.

So, duh...

*desired characteristics...

Diesel engine, forced induction preferred
solid front axle
selectable front and rear lockers
HVAC
Color: Toyota color code 416, Dune Beige or 464 Beige

Okay, how sweet is that troopy with the portal axles...

 

[Mitch]

but first I have to get Mitch to buy my Tacoma

Paint it white, and we got a deal!

 

[Dave]

Unobtainium is always sweet. Thus my major frustration with Toyota. NA just isn't getting ANY of their best offerings.

 

[CLynn85]

View attachment 5198View attachment 5199

It is highly likely that I would give up my Tacoma for that, but that'll never happen.

 

[Haggis]

Back in the day my trucks were Dodges, my cars were GM and there was most likely a Jeep in the garage. I made the switch to Toyota 5 years ago and despite Toyota's current trend towards bloated new models I don't think I'll go back.

The quality and reliability of Dodge and Chrysler has let me down too many times over the years to warrant me giving them another chance; transmissions, front hub units, brakes and the worst being the rust. Our last GM car was a source of constant repairs, I swear GM went with the cheapest materials possible to build a vehicle. And with living in the rust belt, Rams and Jeeps are some of the worst offenders and we're already seeing the latter models of Rams and the JKs being eaten away. And while the older Toys were known for rusted out beds and rockers, its very seldom you see any rust in a newer Toyota. I know the field is always greener on the other side of the fence, but take a good look first. That green field is probably well fertilized, so watch your step.

That being said, nobody offers the vehicle I'm looking for so I'll probably stick with what I have and keep putting the money back to build what I want when the time comes.

 

[BorregoWrangler]

I am giving Toyota every opportunity not to fumbledick this, but they're seeming incapable.

Nice!

 

[Esmi]

Arbitration Update

Arbitration Update...

Well, I had my day today, and I think it came out okay. My faith has been somewhat restored in Toyota. They are going to redouble their efforts to solve my vibes, they extended my warranty out to seven years, and they convinced me that they are still #1 automaker for me and 9,999,999 other auto buyers per year.

I don't like situations like that, where I am the dumbest guy in the room (their rep is a USC MBA perfesser, the arbitrator is an attorney). But I compensated for that with extensive preparation. In my estimation, the arbitrator was actually a neutral party (I had my doubts), and the whole process was relatively friction free (except for the test drive, where the arbitrator and the rep had to take turns sitting in the jump seats of an AccessCab).

Due to my extensive preparations, my candor, and my village-idiot demeanor, I believe I had the arbitrator convinced to make Toyota buy my truck back. Then I flinched. And the arbitrator left the room to allow us a crack at resolution before she ruled. And I took the offer. Which I would probably do again, because a buyback would do me no good (still need a truck, and prefer Tacos).

The short version is, "I am pleased with Toyota, and how they handled this." Obviously, I would prefer to not have the problem in the first place, or to be able to handle it at the dealership level, but when it finally got to Corporate, Toyota did right by me.

Still got the vibes, and Toyota still doesn't know how to fix 'em, but I have full faith that they are probably working on it, and have not turned their back on their fan base.