Toyota Rant (or snivvel)

Esmi

Adventurist
Founding Member
For me, Toyota has always been one of the things you can count on. They make good things that work well, and they stand up and fix their errors. Or so I thought.

Then there's Esmi's 2013 Tacoma Access Cab TRD-OffRoad 4X4 driveshaft vibration. Brand spanking new truck that I drove off the lot with 13 miles on it in August. It had a funny driveshaft rumble at ±10 mph, that I didn't worry to much about because its a Toyota and they'll make it right.

But they won't. I've taken it in twice, and the service department agrees with me that there's a "funny" vibration at 10-25 mph. But they're not going to do anything about it ... Because they don't know what to do ... They know the problem, and they are familiar with Toyota's TSB for the problem ... but the TSB does not effectively solve this issue ... so the plan is to do nothing. I am frigging livid.

Anybody else find that Toyota ain't behaving like Toyota anymore?
 
ever since their tacoma reached the size of an f150 they weren't to be trusted... too much plastic as well, as for the push button 4x4 thats just weird. Have you taken it to a drive shaft place? or is it missing a small weight on it? mine is an 03 but it has a little weight welded on to one side of it. I am sorry you are having trouble with the Toyoda family.
 
C'mon Travis, F150 is 97 inches wide, Tacoma 2nd Gen is 72 inches wide.

If it were me, I'd take the driveshaft to a professional, have it corrected, and present the bill to the Service Manager and see what he does with it. If he pays me for it, then I win. If he doesn't, I've solved the problem at my expense, and I either press the issue or add the experience to my future buying criteria.
 
I work at a domestic brand dealership.

Your next step is to look in your owners manual, get the 800 number for Toyota Customer Assistance and start a case on your truck/condition. I'm not familiar with the Toyota process, but I'd imagine this will get someone's attention. When making the call be prepared to be on the phone for half an hour, talking to someone that seems to be a compete idiot regarding anything automotive. (At least that's what you get at our call center, they are trained to act like they have never heard of anything like what you describe. The factory doesn't want call center people trying to "fix' or diagnose vehicles, their job is to gather information.

In my world when we can't resolve an issue, there will be a "Tech Line" case where my techs are dealing directly with the factory engineers. If the issue still can't be resolved, we get a field engineer in to assist with resolving the issue. Keep in mind this can be a process, and you may be asked to bring the truck in when the field engineer is available. I'd also think that you would be offered alternate transportation while your vehicle is being repaired.
 
If it's any consolation to you, I smashed my Nissan Frontier's tailpipe climbing up a rocky washed out road a few days ago and had to take it to the muffler shop. Still has a scratched bumper. :(
 
ever since their tacoma reached the size of an f150 they weren't to be trusted... too much plastic as well, as for the push button 4x4 thats just weird.

Negatron ghost rider. My Tacoma is smaller than an F150, and the 4WD is not a push button it's a dial - flawless function since Feb 2005 with THOUSANDS of off road miles ;)
 
I work at a domestic brand dealership.

Your next step is to look in your owners manual, get the 800 number for Toyota Customer Assistance and start a case on your truck/condition. I'm not familiar with the Toyota process, but I'd imagine this will get someone's attention. When making the call be prepared to be on the phone for half an hour, talking to someone that seems to be a compete idiot regarding anything automotive. (At least that's what you get at our call center, they are trained to act like they have never heard of anything like what you describe. The factory doesn't want call center people trying to "fix' or diagnose vehicles, their job is to gather information.

In my world when we can't resolve an issue, there will be a "Tech Line" case where my techs are dealing directly with the factory engineers. If the issue still can't be resolved, we get a field engineer in to assist with resolving the issue. Keep in mind this can be a process, and you may be asked to bring the truck in when the field engineer is available. I'd also think that you would be offered alternate transportation while your vehicle is being repaired.

Solid advice here.
 
The difference between the service shops at my two closest Toyota dealerships is pretty much like night and day. Same with my two nearest Jeep dealerships, come to think of it.

I've seen a good brand sell a new vehicle with problems they couldn't fix and wouldn't stand behind. Sometimes it seems you're in for a fight, or just need to sell the thing and move on. Hopefully it doesn't come to that.

Good luck.
 
Thanks for the replies, gents! Please do keep them coming.


...
If it were me, I'd take the driveshaft to a professional, have it corrected, and present the bill to the Service Manager and see what he does with it. If he pays me for it, then I win. If he doesn't, I've solved the problem at my expense, and I either press the issue or add the experience to my future buying criteria.
I have not taken it to a driveshaft place yet. I am giving Toyota every opportunity not to fumbledick this, but they're seeming incapable.

The backstory is that Toyota has had an intermittent issue with Tacoma low speed driveshaft vibration since at least 2008. Doesn't happen to all Tacomas, and Toyota (apparently) don't know why it happens to some of them. Their most recent TSB (0249-12) for the prob was recently deemed obsolete because the repairs didn't solve the problem. My point is, they know the problem is there, they simply don't know what to do about it.


I work at a domestic brand dealership.

Your next step is to look in your owners manual, get the 800 number for Toyota Customer Assistance and start a case on your truck/condition. I'm not familiar with the Toyota process, but I'd imagine this will get someone's attention. When making the call be prepared to be on the phone for half an hour, talking to someone that seems to be a compete idiot regarding anything automotive. (At least that's what you get at our call center, they are trained to act like they have never heard of anything like what you describe. The factory doesn't want call center people trying to "fix' or diagnose vehicles, their job is to gather information.

In my world when we can't resolve an issue, there will be a "Tech Line" case where my techs are dealing directly with the factory engineers. If the issue still can't be resolved, we get a field engineer in to assist with resolving the issue. Keep in mind this can be a process, and you may be asked to bring the truck in when the field engineer is available. I'd also think that you would be offered alternate transportation while your vehicle is being repaired.
Good advice in there, Bob. ToyotaCare essentially told me to pound sand. They are sorry and contrite and not going to do anything for the sad sack that just gave them $30K for a truck. The next escalation is arbitration, which I have filed for, and have a date of Jan 9, 2014.


I'd try another Toyota dealer
I understand that dealers vary widely in their competence. Since I got Corporate involved, I was sort of hoping to get my local dealer tuned up, but that has not worked. You are correct, I should give a neighboring dealer an opportunity.


If it's any consolation to you, I smashed my Nissan Frontier's tailpipe climbing up a rocky washed out road a few days ago and had to take it to the muffler shop. Still has a scratched bumper. :(
Man, that hurts. Have you looked into litigation with the owner of the dirt that damaged the truck?



The internet is aware of the problem, and there are a number of non-factory solutions with varying success rates. Rebalancing the drive line is one. Replacing it with a single-piece shaft is another. Shimming the carrier bearing is another. Shimming the axle perch (to decrease the pinion angle) is another. Shimming the t-case is another. These are in addition to the items on T-SB-0249-012, which include motor mount replacements and/or leaf spring replacements. So there's a lot of things I could do. One of the things I don't want to do, yet, is take responsibility for Toyota's problem.
 
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I'm a little bitter regarding Toyota right now. It just doesn't seem like they are bringing their "A" game. They have always kept their coolest trucks out if the US, but it seems nowadays that they are at the tail end of new ideas in the market, and are in the midst of being eclipsed by other manufacturers in the quality of their product offering.
 
I'm a little bitter regarding Toyota right now. It just doesn't seem like they are bringing their "A" game. They have always kept their coolest trucks out if the US, but it seems nowadays that they are at the tail end of new ideas in the market, and are in the midst of being eclipsed by other manufacturers in the quality of their product offering.

I tend to agree.
 
Every dealership has a service drive, regardless of brand. I've got no dog in this particular fight, but being in the business, I hate it when a customer has a legitimate concern that doesn't get resolved.

Another avenue to take a look at is filing a claim with your state's Bureau of Automotive repair. I promise you, when the California BAR shows up at our shop, it usually doesn't end well for us. This tactic may be a little "iffy" if it's a warranty issue, but worth making a couple of phone calls to find out.
 
Not sure what region of the country you are in, but here in the SE we have Regional Managers that oversee the S.E.Toyota dealers. I don't use dealer service anymore, but in the first year I had an issue that they couldn't figure out at the dealer service center. I kept pushing and they finally said that their regional manager would look into it, and that he was scheduled to be at their dealer that week. I got his name and contact info and sent him a bunch of my online research on the issue. It got taken care of not long after that.

See if you can get that regional mgr type to listen to your story. He may be able to pull strings the the keyboard jockeys at Customer Care cannot.
Each dealership is looking out for his bottom line. The regional managers will have "marketing" funds available to them, if they think it will help with customer retention, that won't affect the dealership's books. If you go into it guns a-blazing, they will chalk you up as a lost customer - beyond retaining, thus no "marketing" funds for your issue will be considered.

Sucks all around, but you gotta play the game. My .02.
 
.... If you go into it guns a-blazing, they will chalk you up as a lost customer - beyond retaining, thus no "marketing" funds for your issue will be considered.
....

Excellent, excellent point.

Further: It's the truth. I am a "Toyota guy." It pains me to see "my" company piss the bed this way. Part of what I need them to fix is the stupid drive shaft vibration; another part they need to fix is their image. Their image in my eyes, surely; but also their image in the eyes of all the lost children who own 2nd Gen Tacos and have "the vibes" with no clear path to resolution.

It seems to be a pretty common, and far reaching, problem once you start looking for it. In fact, some of the reading I've done suggests that Toyota is unwilling to lose a single "vibes" case in arbitration, because that would open the door to all the people who have the issue. I don't know if that's true, and I probably never will. But it makes me think they've got their big guns loaded for my arbitration case.
 
The vibe issue is not "Toyota" per se IIRC, it's Dana Corp. They make the shafts and U-joints on the Tacoma (frames too IIRC) so... yeah, it's lame and Toyota has the responsibility to do the right thing.

Back when Toyota didnt outsource so much, and when they were "made in Japan" it was unheard of to have QC issues.

Anyone know if the FJ or Prado/4Runner has this issue? I doubt it... made in Japan.
 
I think it's pretty weak to blame Dana Corp. If Toyota is cutting corners to save weight/$$$, it's a Toyota issue, not the guy building the parts to their specs. If the parts are not being built to their spec, then they need to get after the vendor to correct the issue. Dana Corp builds parts for hundreds of different vehicles without having vibration issues.

I come from a drivetrain background (Allison Transmission). In my experience driveline vibes are often attributed to poor driveline geometry. Consumers in our demographic don't make it any easier by lifting the vehicle, adding substantial weight to the vehicle, etc. Modified Jeep Wranglers in particular can be difficult to get dialed in due to their short rear driveshaft. Changing engine mounts (taller mount) is often used to resolve our driveline geometry issues.
 
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