brothersam
Adventurist
Super hyped for The Acolyte series! May the Force be with us all!
The Star Wars Thread
- Thread starter Dave
- Start date
This.
Lets see Disney try to blame this abysmal score on "toxic" Star Wars Fans.
You know you suck when...
Herbie
Adventurist
Counterpoint: If this were any other generic sci-fi/fantasy show, the kids (my teenaged daughter included) would still be into it, and the grown ups would just shrug and ignore it. The writing and pacing here are no different from The Magicians, or Killjoys or The 100. But because some of the side-characters have light sabers and use "the force" instead of "magic", there are folks getting on the internet every wednesday morning to complain about the ways their childhoods have been violated this week.
Star Wars is "big" enough to have more than one group of fans, and the people who are digging The Acolyte aren't the same age as the people who do Rotten Tomato reviews.
Herbie
Adventurist
Here's a fun reminder:
These are some actual, published reviews from critics:
The last one gives it away - these are all critics who hated Empire. Maybe it was just the critics who sucked? Turns out, nope. Here are some writings from Star Wars "Fans" after the film dropped in 1980: (fan letters to the editor of Starlog Magazine)
These are some actual, published reviews from critics:
The last one gives it away - these are all critics who hated Empire. Maybe it was just the critics who sucked? Turns out, nope. Here are some writings from Star Wars "Fans" after the film dropped in 1980: (fan letters to the editor of Starlog Magazine)
Counterpoint to your counterpoint. Growing up doesn't mean you have to stop being a fan of something. e.g. Mark Hamill is openly critical about how Luke hid from his responsibilities as a Jedi in Rise of Skywalker. It's a deviation from the character's persona. That's the issue. The Magicians, or Killjoys are The 100 stand alone and are not a continuation and part of an existing story that subsequent stories need to build on and not tear down.
If people think The Acolyte is getting it rough I would just like to remind them of this guy.
HELLOSA!
Herbie
Adventurist
Yeah, there is a lot we can be critical of, as fans. I do, however, question the validity of some of the "reviews" that seem to be a reaction to something other than the art. When the 2008 Joel Edgerton mystery/thriller movie that happens to be called "Acolytes" gets review bombed in the days before Episode 1 of the Disney show airs... you can bet that people aren't exactly making measured commentary about writing, pacing, acting, or art-directing.
And just as with the new shows, there's a huge generational gap on opinions on the Prequels. As a '70s/'80s kid, I really didn't like the prequels. Hate it too strong a word, but I thought they did a lot to "undo" the work of the original trilogy. But I know a lot of 20- and 30- somethings that absolutely LOVE the prequels. That's their trilogy. They make memes about some of the clunky dialog ("I don't like sand..."), but those films are as much canon as anything.
Like I said, Star Wars is big enough for all of the fans.
My kid is looking for the teen K-drama Star Wars. Give her 12 episodes about a krill farmer from the Outer Rim who comes to Coruscant for the annual harvest sale, only to be mistaken for an heiress to the fortune of a Corellian shipbuilder, with Shakespearian love and intrigue, and Jedi, and she'd be happy for months. For myself, I want 5 spin-offs from Andor - all in the vein of cold-war era spycraft like Smiley's People and Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy, centered around Luthen Rael, but he only shows up like once a season.
And just as with the new shows, there's a huge generational gap on opinions on the Prequels. As a '70s/'80s kid, I really didn't like the prequels. Hate it too strong a word, but I thought they did a lot to "undo" the work of the original trilogy. But I know a lot of 20- and 30- somethings that absolutely LOVE the prequels. That's their trilogy. They make memes about some of the clunky dialog ("I don't like sand..."), but those films are as much canon as anything.
Like I said, Star Wars is big enough for all of the fans.
My kid is looking for the teen K-drama Star Wars. Give her 12 episodes about a krill farmer from the Outer Rim who comes to Coruscant for the annual harvest sale, only to be mistaken for an heiress to the fortune of a Corellian shipbuilder, with Shakespearian love and intrigue, and Jedi, and she'd be happy for months. For myself, I want 5 spin-offs from Andor - all in the vein of cold-war era spycraft like Smiley's People and Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy, centered around Luthen Rael, but he only shows up like once a season.
*pushes Nerd glasses up*
And some of them are legitimate in pointing out how it breaks canon that was established in the Prequels. Lucas was strongly influenced by Joseph Campbell’s The Hero with a Thousand Faces and Greek mythology (and tragedies) and wanted to create a saga. Greek mythology heroes have miraculous birth stories to signify that they were exceptional, unique, and because of this birth shared a God like destiny. The Force replaced religion.
Herbie
Adventurist
I'm confused - what canon is broken?
Even in the original trilogy, you have at least two living force users who were not attributed miraculous births, and lore that implies a large number of Jedi once came from throughout the galaxy. Anakin was apparently exceptional, but even within the context of Episode I, the implication was that the normal case was that force sensitive people existed everywhere, even if they were uncommon. (Hence handheld portable M-count testers, etc.) We can quibble about the effect adding a virgin birth to the canon, (which I disliked), but since that was also Lucas writing (and directing), it's hard to say whether that was new or just previously unpublished backstory. I was far more upset by character-breaking edits for the Special-Editions than I ever was by anything in the Prequels that changed the lore.
Ahsoka, and much of the animated content reference "Witches" as users of a something force-like, but perhaps different. If anything, The Acolyte sort of harmonizes this disparity when the head witch notes that Jedi and the Witches may be accessing the same power, but with different names and philosophies behind it. (Being set ~100BBY also sort of eliminates any conflicts with respect to the canon of the nascent Empire)
As for Campbell, his influence on Lucas is well documented. The "Hero's journey" is neatly represented step-for-step in A New Hope. Lucas was also very clear in his affinity for the 1930's "serials" and their episodic action-based stories, whereby our stolid hero confronted evils every week. (It would be tedious if Luke Skywalker had to go through the "call to adventure" and "refusal of the call" in every film, for example.)
Even in the original trilogy, you have at least two living force users who were not attributed miraculous births, and lore that implies a large number of Jedi once came from throughout the galaxy. Anakin was apparently exceptional, but even within the context of Episode I, the implication was that the normal case was that force sensitive people existed everywhere, even if they were uncommon. (Hence handheld portable M-count testers, etc.) We can quibble about the effect adding a virgin birth to the canon, (which I disliked), but since that was also Lucas writing (and directing), it's hard to say whether that was new or just previously unpublished backstory. I was far more upset by character-breaking edits for the Special-Editions than I ever was by anything in the Prequels that changed the lore.
Ahsoka, and much of the animated content reference "Witches" as users of a something force-like, but perhaps different. If anything, The Acolyte sort of harmonizes this disparity when the head witch notes that Jedi and the Witches may be accessing the same power, but with different names and philosophies behind it. (Being set ~100BBY also sort of eliminates any conflicts with respect to the canon of the nascent Empire)
As for Campbell, his influence on Lucas is well documented. The "Hero's journey" is neatly represented step-for-step in A New Hope. Lucas was also very clear in his affinity for the 1930's "serials" and their episodic action-based stories, whereby our stolid hero confronted evils every week. (It would be tedious if Luke Skywalker had to go through the "call to adventure" and "refusal of the call" in every film, for example.)
I'm not saying that miraculous births are the norm. Rather that it should be the opposite to reflect what it signifies in Greek mythology. Anakin in the Star Wars saga is the Greek mythology equivalent of Achilles. Where as Achilles falls into madness after killing Queen Penthisalaia, Anakin falls to the dark side.
And yeah, Han shot first.
Man, I'm busy for a weekend and miss a whole Star Wars debate! I'm not a fan of The Acolyte, but it has nothing to do with the gender or sexual preferences of the characters. They played up characters who really seemed interesting and then killed one off in the first scene and the other before he ever interacted with any other character (on screen). It's just a series of shock twists and turns and murder mystery in space. Given our current cancel culture attitudes and a pointless social media induced fight over LGBTQ+ attitudes, an open score for anything that can be influenced by social media outrage is pointless. Remember when "the Libs" bought all the tickets to Trump's rally? (Not a political statement, btw.)
I'll continue to watch because it's a Star Wars series, but I really wish they'd just turn over the keys to anything Star Wars to Dave Filoni. This writing and character development doesn't have me engaged. I don't care about any of the individual characters, nor the shifting dynamics of determining the good guys from the bad guys. It reminds me of House of Dragons. Point out who I'm supposed to be rooting for in THAT show, but I'll still watch it too. I suppose in The Acolyte I should still be rooting for Osha.
I'll continue to watch because it's a Star Wars series, but I really wish they'd just turn over the keys to anything Star Wars to Dave Filoni. This writing and character development doesn't have me engaged. I don't care about any of the individual characters, nor the shifting dynamics of determining the good guys from the bad guys. It reminds me of House of Dragons. Point out who I'm supposed to be rooting for in THAT show, but I'll still watch it too. I suppose in The Acolyte I should still be rooting for Osha.
That was quite obvious, actually, he just knew too much. I haven't tried to figure that other part out yet. Sadly, I just want it to be over but I have to watch it all.
