Recovery Rings

Greg said:
He reiterated several times that he is just covering efficiency and not covering wear issues on the synthetic lines. He did cover it elsewhere in essence. Here he explains why he uses rollers with his synthetic ropes instead of a hawse.


The recovery ring, soft shackle and line are creating the same situation in combination as dragging the line over a hawse fairlead. In the later of the two you make an attempt to avoid by positioning the vehicle. In the former you're doing it on purpose.

That just seems like cognitive dissonance to me. Because I picture in my head someone spending time to position the vehicles so the line spools correctly and doesn't drag across a hawse. Then using a recovery ring.

This isn't a new invention. They've literally been used in sailing for thousands of years. Some were found on a wreck of a Greek sailing ship dating back to 400 BC. They're used up in the sail rigging where being light is more important then the friction concerns.

https://www.harken.com/en/shop/lead-rings/28-mm-lead-ring/
Click to expand...

One note on using these on sailboats - they have been used successfully for eons.

On boats, however, the rings are not continuously turning. The rigging must be adjusted for wind conditions and direction, but, especially on the big ships, the adjustments are not that great, so the sheave does not rotate much around the fixed line.

Another note - with the hawse fairlead, the same short section of line is not continually rubbed against the hawse. The hawse may get warm, but has little time to heat soak the line.
 
Scott B. said:
Another note - with the hawse fairlead, the same short section of line is not continually rubbed against the hawse. The hawse may get warm, but has little time to heat soak the line.
Click to expand...

Exactly! :madarcher
 
You can get one of these and double your fun @Dean

4A6EA9B4-E74E-48FA-B961-2BEDC3D9B60D.jpeg


I love how they have photos of every color of this “double whammy” available, but ZERO photos of it rigged up and actually in use.

https://customsplice.com/products/d...PSMLiYLhpZY_LwQ66_mlL9WTtJeuKJmBl5dQ06srsv7MM
 
I was gonna say Ford needs a trans and or park brake. And Miller (?) Lite in hand lends credibility.

I still don't like them. For a soft shackle that you want to toast? Maybe?
 
I had 2 and sold them to some folks who will never use them most likely.
even after I told them i would never use them, they still bought them.
 
This is how arborists use them. The common term is Fiori Rings named after Giorgio Fiori.

Here's the instructions.
https://ftc-tree.com/app/uploads/2017/08/Notice-Fiori-s-ring-A5-EN-WEB.pdf

Here's a demonstration of their use by Giorgio Fiori (all music. no voiceover)

Here's another ( You can see the Fiori Ring at around the 40s mark )

My takeaway.
  • They're being used in combination with a friction brake. Friction is something they want.
  • Looking at the abuse the rope is taking in the first video and the basic fundamentals of how the friction brake works in the second I doubt damage to the rope moving through the ring comes first and so it's not a concern.
 
rlynch356 said:
suggested rigging I assume
View attachment 56630

Which is 100% opposite of how the Recovery rings are marketed...

for the record the FloriRing looks nicer and has a better profile inside than any of the recovery rings I have seen..
Click to expand...

Yep. Cut above it with a rope attached to the section they planned the drop and the other end through a friction brake.

I think it was the last Expo East where I saw the 7P selling these. I expressed my concern about friction. How the capstan equation works. The response I got from a helpful bystander was that arborists use them all the time. I didn't get a response as to how they're used. That's the motivation for all this.

In the instructions. The last thing they note is the user should be aware of the pulley effect. The warning symbol above the text does not mean "hey you could use this as a pulley too".
 
Friction is going to be a bitch. Especially with that incorrect center hole radius.

Not a fan.
 
I think it is a good idea.

There is friction pulling the line around the sheave, but once the line passes, that's it. Minimal contact (drag) time for heat to build up at any one point in the line. Since the sheave is not turning on the soft shackle, no heat is built up in the center of the sheave on the soft shackle.

A concern I had with his 5:1 setup was overloading the sheave. I wonder what the maximum failure load is - and how close he was to it.

Minimal gear/minimal weight - always a good thing.

I'm not sure I would use this setup on a Camel Trophy kind of ride, but for the occasional use user, this looks to be a good solution.
 
I still recommend carrying a REAL pulley block.

Dave said:
In some ways, the rings are pointless. A solution in search of a problem, marketed primarily based on “weight savings” IMO. Seems like there’s quite a few folks that really want to believe in them, or justify their inherent shortcomings vis a vis a standard pulley block.

If a guy’s load out doesn’t have the excess capacity to carry a REAL pulley block then maybe they should carry less IPA’s or other comfort based decision type crapola ;)

Here’s two examples of fully functional pulley blocks that barely weigh anything.

1 lb 9 oz, 8000 lb rating
View attachment 56513

4 lbs 3 oz, 20,000 lb rating
View attachment 56514
Click to expand...
 
Scott B. said:
There is friction pulling the line around the sheave, but once the line passes, that's it. Minimal contact (drag) time for heat to build up at any one point in the line. Since the sheave is not turning on the soft shackle, no heat is built up in the center of the sheave on the soft shackle.

A concern I had with his 5:1 setup was overloading the sheave. I wonder what the maximum failure load is - and how close he was to it.

Minimal gear/minimal weight - always a good thing.
Click to expand...

The heat build up will be in the metal itself, I’d like to see how hot it gets in this configuration during a hard pull over say 30 meters.

Independent testing to destruction is always a good thing, not sure what testing they have done. Also not sure what these are rated at.

As for minimal gear/weight, see above. I carry two pulley blocks at less than 10 lbs for both. Properly rated, and tested.
 
Dave said:
The heat build up will be in the metal itself, I’d like to see how hot it gets in this configuration during a hard pull over say 30 meters.

Independent testing to destruction is always a good thing, not sure what testing they have done. Also not sure what these are rated at.

As for minimal gear/weight, see above. I carry two pulley blocks at less than 10 lbs for both. Properly rated, and tested.
Click to expand...

Yes, the heat build up is in the metal. The heat then transfers to the line, causing issues/failure. My point was with a moving line, there is minimal contact time for heat transfer into the line. (Same argument with the hawse fairlead.)

Using one of these as a double block (as he had rigged in his 4:1 and 5:1 setups) the sheave will see a significantly higher load. I was expecting one to fail...

I don't drink IPAs, so that not an issue. :p
 
One thing not mentioned in the video was the extremely high load the anchor points had during his winching.

People talk about using a 4:1 or 5:1 rigging to increase the pulling power of the winch, but most don't mention strength of anchor points. I'm not talking about the moving (winched) vehicle - I am referring to the fixed ones. The moving vehicle will not see nearly the load of the fixed ones, as the load is transferred to motion.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom