Researching

#1
You ever notice on some forums or groups people want to build a trailer or vehicle modification's that some folks need their hand held during the entire project? & it's not even that, just things in life. I'm turning 60 yrs old this year & did all kinds of modification's & frame off rebuilds in the early 1980's into the mid 1990's. The only access to information back then was from magazines, manuals, auto parts manufactures or stores, chatting with fellow offroaders, drag racers & trial & error. The internet didn't even exist. Nowadays the internet can supply us with tons of good information & a general direction on just about any project we wish to tackle.

Here's what I do not understand & my gripe, we all have the ability to learn, but I find that some folks on this earth seems to need continuous hand held guidance & or wanting all the information so they do not have to put any effort looking \ research. It seems they can not function w\o some one actually drawing the entire picture out for them with arrow pointing to the links, answers & step by step illistrations. I am not talking about some one looking for answer to a question on electrical which I have asked here a few times. Electrical isn't a my forte so seeking information that double checks a typical 12v. wire diagram on the internet is a good thing IMO. What I get tired of & is a annoyance is some need that hand held step by step, send me a link, how did you do that, where can I get that mentality. Most of us who walk on this earth owns a computer, phones with internet service. It doesn't take a whole lot of effort to google a search for a product some one posted on a forum that you want to use or install. I never built a trailer more less a offroad trailer. My 1st offroad trailer I done 6 months of research before I even started the actual build, 9 1\2 months to complete. Lots of pencil sketches, writing a budget & listing parts, checking & double checking. The last time I done anything like this was back in California (Central Coast) in my earlier yrs, 1946 Willy's CJ2A : frame off build that took 18 months to complete, 1966 Chev El Camino Drag car w\400 D Stroke Small Block, 2 speed auto trans, 456 gears. In 1994 a frame off rebuild of 1972 Suzuki LJ20. Most of the parts for the LJ20 I ordered from Canada & Australia since the U.S. had very few of these here. Lots of phone calls that some one knew of some friend who knew this guy were to get these parts from. GOD gave us a brain, nothing was ever handed to me nor I ever needed my hand held for anything that I couldn't figure out or research. Maybe I am different or just old school & how I was raised. Some times I see people who are almost sleep like that they can not fend for themselves or are willing not to learn or even try. Makes me wonder how these type of people will really make it in life. I made plenty of mistakes on projects I done, how else will you learn, this goes in life too. Lastly I am not saying asking for help is a bad thing, it's a good thing, what I am trying to say is the continuous laziness that comes from people who want it all handed to them.
 

Al Swope

Adventurist
Founding Member
#4
You could say, at least they're try'n, although just barely. A sub set of this group just pay someone to build their stuff then have no clue how to work on it.... or post endless rants on how they got ripped off. Buy some tools, buy a welder, and STFU
 

Dave

Adventurist
Founder
Senior Staff
Editor
#5
You could say, at least they're try'n, although just barely. A sub set of this group just pay someone to build their stuff then have no clue how to work on it.... or post endless rants on how they got ripped off. Buy some tools, buy a welder, and STFU
This :lol
 

Dean

Adventurist
Founding Member
#6
We've anesthetized entire generations of school children by removing all critical thinking and creativity from their minds. We've standardized learning to a simple black and white process and then made them fear being wrong. We've removed curiosity and the "trial and error" process from learning and subsequently removed all the fun. Sir Ken Robison has a great (and short) presentation about this on YouTube. He also has two books about regaining creativity and passion. I think his thoughts reflect your own and shows how dependent out society has become on external approval and fear of external disapproval. So many are afraid to learn by making mistakes. They are so used to teachers spoon feeding them what they need to know for the next standarized test that they've forgotten how to learn.

(Fixed the link)
 
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Greg

Adventurist
Senior Staff
#10
We've anesthetized entire generations of school children by removing all critical thinking and creativity from their minds. We've standardized learning to a simple black and white process and then made them fear being wrong. We've removed curiosity and the "trial and error" process from learning and subsequently removed all the fun. Sir Ken Robison has a great (and short) presentation about this on YouTube. He also has two books about regaining creativity and passion. I think his thoughts reflect your own and shows how dependent out society has become on external approval and fear of external disapproval. So many are afraid to learn by making mistakes. They are so used to teachers spoon feeding them what they need to know for the next standarized test that they've forgotten how to learn.

Link leads me back to this same thread.

Or please tell me that the link was wrong intentionally to see how many people would look up the video.
 
#11
When I was young, I used to read my father's copies of Popular Science and Popular Mechanics. (Did I ever mention that he built our house?) There were plans for building your own furniture, doing simple car repairs, silvering your own mirrors, even articles for amateur machinists and plans for building your own arc welder from the ground up.

It's pitiful what these magazines have degenerated into these days, but I guess that's because no one was interested in these subjects anymore . . .
 
#12
I remember those old magazines - they were great! I remember when 4-wheeling magazines had real tech info in them as well. Ah, the good ol' days...

As to the "handholding", I think some of that is due to the "look at me" attitude of people of today. Whether or not they learned anything (which most haven't), they want to show everyone else what they did.
 

Dave

Adventurist
Founder
Senior Staff
Editor
#13
When I was young, I used to read my father's copies of Popular Science and Popular Mechanics. (Did I ever mention that he built our house?) There were plans for building your own furniture, doing simple car repairs, silvering your own mirrors, even articles for amateur machinists and plans for building your own arc welder from the ground up.

It's pitiful what these magazines have degenerated into these days, but I guess that's because no one was interested in these subjects anymore . . .
Amen. Those were the best magazines and full of dreams and ideas!
 

Dave

Adventurist
Founder
Senior Staff
Editor
#14
As to the "handholding", I think some of that is due to the "look at me" attitude of people of today. Whether or not they learned anything (which most haven't), they want to show everyone else what they did.
That brings up another point. How groups and companies have sprung to cater to, and profit from, the hand holding noted in the OP.

Not gonna point any fingers, but some folks/companies are making boatloads of money off of pandering to poor schmucks who are motivationally challenged but want to "look" cool on social.

This is why we will never sell perks, membership, ranks, private forums, badges, or numbered baubles. Our community and all of it's information will remain free.

But I digress ;)
 
#15
In large part I agree with the sentiment that there is too little willingness to do the work (and the work of learning) in many today.
But in my part time role as old contrarian, allow me to offer this for further consideration.
In a bygone era, the systems themselves were simpler and arguably less expensive. One might acquire an old Jeep for less than a weeks paycheck and with basic mechanical knowledge, figure out a way to make the wheels go round, turn side to side and in some cases stop when you wanted them to. It would take multiple hours and a few garage-based strategy sessions but it was doable.
Today's systems are more inter-connected and more likely to do things based on an electric input from a sensor out of sight. The acquisition of a similar old Heep will likely require a larger percentage of income to begin with and the magical mystery sensor might be as dear financially as the initial vehicle.
Yes, the magical sensor can be learned and fingered out with enough patience and research but patience and spare time (and sometimes guarded proprietary information) may be in shorter supply.
That doesn't change the basic attitude of instant gratification and approval-seeking but there may be a bit more to the whole deal than readily appears.
(Now where's that shield emoji when you need it?)
 

Dave

Adventurist
Founder
Senior Staff
Editor
#16
In large part I agree with the sentiment that there is too little willingness to do the work (and the work of learning) in many today.
But in my part time role as old contrarian, allow me to offer this for further consideration.
In a bygone era, the systems themselves were simpler and arguably less expensive. One might acquire an old Jeep for less than a weeks paycheck and with basic mechanical knowledge, figure out a way to make the wheels go round, turn side to side and in some cases stop when you wanted them to. It would take multiple hours and a few garage-based strategy sessions but it was doable.
Today's systems are more inter-connected and more likely to do things based on an electric input from a sensor out of sight. The acquisition of a similar old Heep will likely require a larger percentage of income to begin with and the magical mystery sensor might be as dear financially as the initial vehicle.
Yes, the magical sensor can be learned and fingered out with enough patience and research but patience and spare time (and sometimes guarded proprietary information) may be in shorter supply.
That doesn't change the basic attitude of instant gratification and approval-seeking but there may be a bit more to the whole deal than readily appears.
(Now where's that shield emoji when you need it?)
Great post
 
#18
Self discipline is an important part of learning. Without it IMO you won’t get very far. The motivation & drive is what helps people prosper, this has rewards, the ability to contribute to society & to increased sense of self worth. But you have others that do the total opposite & will criticize those who are persistence in the things they do. We've seen in society that there is no longer winners & losers, that every one is are "participant." IMO this weakens the individual & sets limitations. I remember when I was 17 yrs old & I got a job working for a painting contractor my job was "go for this, move that ladder, move this drop cloth, I had to wash all the brushes & roller skins @ the end of the day, clean paint buckets, fold drop cloths, move airless paint sprayer lines, taking down all the masking paper & bag it up." I wanted to be a painter, to fit in with the rest of the crew. After 2 months of this I was complaining to my father about this & mention "I'm going to quite that job" my father sat me down & explained something very easy & was bold about. "I didn't raise a quitter for a son, life doesn't meet you half way, you get what you put into it & your NOT entitled to start @ the top." Come to find out I stayed & continue the tasks they gave me, worked my way as a apprentice, then a journeyman to a crew boss & eventually to my own painting contracting business for 20 plus yrs which filter in the firearm industry for another 20 yrs. Starting @ the bottom rung of the work ladder made me appreciate the career I had, made me under how things really worked, I earned the respect from my peers, I earn self respect & dignity for myself. I also learn "self discipline" & a good dose of humble pie from my father. I passed this along to my son, & he passes this on to the twin girls. We all had to start some were.
 
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