Polygraph Tests

Interesting. They never mentioned the pre-test interview and 4-8 hour test is not standard testing protocol. Something isn't right.
 
I know many folks, veterans and retired military who have ben denied USPB service due to polygraph "failure"
Ive seen it with other LEO agencies as well... SMH...
 
Prior military may have things they do know but still aren't supposed to talk about. It can be as simple as whether or not your ship carried nuclear weapons. Standard answer is "we are capable of carrying special weapons".
 
The "box" can be a valuable tool with human assets.

The percentage of failures is not the shocking part, it is the disclosures/confessions that are made.

There are workable resolutions for failures related to TS and SCI concerns.
 
One of the reasons for pre-employment poly/voice stress examinations has more to do with candor then conducting an investigation or interrogation. Most agencies aren't looking for the "angel" that has never lied, but a person that has the character, integrity and honor to be candid about who they are and what they've done in their life. Of course this is an agency policy issue regarding S, TS, SCI and its employees having access. That is why it is critical to conduct a pre-test interview prior to the poly/voice stress examination and address those life issues. Now, it's somewhat human nature (for some) to think they can beat the box. Can it be done, maybe. Can it be done by most normal functioning human beings, not really. But also dependent on the system, process and the skill and experience of the examiner. How the results or disclosure is used in a pre-employment examination has to do with agency hiring policy. How the results, disclosure or lack of disclosure is used in a criminal investigation goes directly to how the investigation, interview or interrogation proceeds which is different then a pre-employment examination (pass or fail). From reading the link, it sounds like they got it all mixed up and were applying interview/interrogation concepts to hiring process.
 
There is value in a intensive interview process for certain jobs. Without knowing what instructions are given prior the polygraph interview, it is impossible to know the reason(s) for failure.
 
BritKLR said:
One of the reasons for pre-employment poly/voice stress examinations has more to do with candor then conducting an investigation or interrogation. Most agencies aren't looking for the "angel" that has never lied, but a person that has the character, integrity and honor to be candid about who they are and what they've done in their life. Of course this is an agency policy issue regarding S, TS, SCI and its employees having access. That is why it is critical to conduct a pre-test interview prior to the poly/voice stress examination and address those life issues. Now, it's somewhat human nature (for some) to think they can beat the box. Can it be done, maybe. Can it be done by most normal functioning human beings, not really. But also dependent on the system, process and the skill and experience of the examiner. How the results or disclosure is used in a pre-employment examination has to do with agency hiring policy. How the results, disclosure or lack of disclosure is used in a criminal investigation goes directly to how the investigation, interview or interrogation proceeds which is different then a pre-employment examination (pass or fail). From reading the link, it sounds like they got it all mixed up and were applying interview/interrogation concepts to hiring process.
Click to expand...
^^^ This. Most agencies recognize/acknowledge human behavior. @BritKLR sums it up succinctly.
 
You do have to wonder about an agency that fails 65% of applicants when other agencies, like the DEA, are only failing 35%.

And failing a Marine pilot who was cleared to fly the President in Marine One?
 
There is very little exact science. Ruling out individual levels of fear, nervousness, tension, excitement or apprehension which will directly affect results of these tests cannot be done with any certainty.
 
buckwilk said:
There is very little exact science. Ruling out individual levels of fear, nervousness, tension, excitement or apprehension which will directly affect results of these tests cannot be done with any certainty.
Click to expand...

There's actually hundreds of millions of dollars in research regarding the science of truth verification. The US Military, Federal Law Enforcement, local law enforcement, Academia and private industry have spent decades developed the technology and processes. What most people get confused with is there are three very distinct components to the truth verification process and not just the machine. The questions, the device or system and the examiner. The machine is going to read what it's designed to read, but what is critical is the examiner is properly trained, experienced, dedicated to the process, competent and can accurately interpret what the device is reading, e.g.: stress (Possibly deception), no stress (no deception), inconclusive (Examiner can not determine the results) while taking into account all the emotions, feelings and stressors mentioned. So, in the end most examinations have issues with the human factor versus the device.
 
BritKLR said:
There's actually hundreds of millions of dollars in research regarding the science of truth verification. The US Military, Federal Law Enforcement, local law enforcement, Academia and private industry have spent decades developed the technology and processes. What most people get confused with is there are three very distinct components to the truth verification process and not just the machine. The questions, the device or system and the examiner. The machine is going to read what it's designed to read, but what is critical is the examiner is properly trained, experienced, dedicated to the process, competent and can accurately interpret what the device is reading, e.g.: stress (Possibly deception), no stress (no deception), inconclusive (Examiner can not determine the results) while taking into account all the emotions, feelings and stressors mentioned. So, in the end most examinations have issues with the human factor versus the device.
Click to expand...


The greatest machine is the human body and brain. There is not a fail proof process to determine the qualification, competency and/or ability of the examiner. The idea that a person is going to take a test and have no stress ( no deception ) belies human nature.
 
"The greatest machine is the human body and brain." Agreed.

"There is not a fail proof process to determine the qualification, competency and/or ability of the examiner." Disagee. Like all advanced specialities the selection, training and experience of the person will dictate success or failure.

"The idea that a person is going to take a test and have no stress ( no deception ) belies human nature." Agreed. But, that is exactly the point of the pre-interview process to determine the baseline of their stress. Once determined, by a competent examiner, they will base their readings from the baseline. So even under the stress of the exam they can determine a no stress/no deception response.
 
When I was working, Polygraphs were used in the selection phase. Very few failed the test but rather disqualified themselves during the
pre-test interview. During the interview , the applicant's application would be reviewed and at some point the applicant would admit to some sort of criminal activity. Usually drug related.

If there are deceptions during the test, the applicant is interviewed about that particular question. That is when the applicant usually admits to criminal behavior.

An issue with the Border Patrol is the majority of the applicants are from the Southwest border and have families on the other side.
Unfortunately ,with the amount of lawlessness in Mexico , applicants become tainted by family members.
 
BritKLR said:
"There is not a fail proof process to determine the qualification, competency and/or ability of the examiner." Disagee. Like all advanced specialities the selection, training and experience of the person will dictate success or failure.
Click to expand...

OK, now you've got me curious. Exactly HOW do we determine whether the examiner is succeeding or failing?
 
mep1811 said:
When I was working, Polygraphs were used in the selection phase. Very few failed the test but rather disqualified themselves during the
pre-test interview. During the interview , the applicant's application would be reviewed and at some point the applicant would admit to some sort of criminal activity. Usually drug related.

If there are deceptions during the test, the applicant is interviewed about that particular question. That is when the applicant usually admits to criminal behavior.

An issue with the Border Patrol is the majority of the applicants are from the Southwest border and have families on the other side.
Unfortunately ,with the amount of lawlessness in Mexico , applicants become tainted by family members.
Click to expand...

Yeah, my experience spans my entire career aswell, from pre-employment, to qualifying for Secret, Top Secret and Secure Compartmented Infomation clearances to creating my agencies Truth Verification Unit for pre-employment and Investigative purposes. I've never personally enjoyed going under the "box", but understood and agreed with the need and experienced the benefit of the outcome.
 
BritKLR said:
Yeah, my experience spans my entire career aswell, from pre-employment, to qualifying for Secret, Top Secret and Secure Compartmented Infomation clearances to creating my agencies Truth Verification Unit for pre-employment and Investigative purposes. I've never personally enjoyed going under the "box", but understood and agreed with the need and experienced the benefit of the outcome.
Click to expand...
Former TS/SCI/NATO/POLY... I have no clue what goes on behind the green curtain but I passed.

Being a simple mouth-breather with minimal cerebral activity may have contributed to my being granted those clearances.

That clearly disproves @buckwilk's theory of, "the greatest machine is the human body and brain". :D
 
TangoBlue said:
Former TS/SCI/NATO/POLY... I have no clue what goes on behind the green curtain but I passed.

Being a simple mouth-breather with minimal cerebral activity may have contributed to my being granted those clearances.

That clearly disproves @buckwilk's theory of, "the greatest machine is the human body and brain". :D
Click to expand...

Yep....screw-up enough and they'll promote you to a job a trained monkey can do.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom