msoverland
Adventurist
Well said Stan and thanks so much!
OutdoorX4 Issue 7 Has Shipped!
- Thread starter OutdoorX4
- Start date
Well said Stan and thanks so much!
Enlightened by critical review? Hardly.
Let's get one thing straight first and stop obfuscating criticism of MSO, which brought you here to contribute to this post, other than posting advertisements updating your blog. That is an entirely separate issue so please, cease referencing OutdoorX4 immediately. There has been nothing but civil discussion and consistent respect for Frank's publication and James contribution to this last issue. Frank and James demostrated their mettle by accepting challenge and courteously and thoroughly responding to my and other posts.
A separate post directed to Frank about an advertiser, MSO, was critical of their representation of Appalachia and genuineness of their motivations. Completely separate from the earlier observations. All you Team MSO - not the publication or its' editor.
Appalachia extends from Maine to Georgia with considerable breadth along the range - West Virginia doesn't have a lock on it, and neither does MSO. There is much to report and explore in that region and it's not all disease, disability, or misfortune. I find it objectionable that you raise stereotypical derogatory images of Appalachia as if to accuse our viewers that they demand to see deformity, pain, and suffering.
The larger question you chose to ignore is what has MSO done to contribute to those communities? Wrapping yourselves in the mantle of, "we care about our childrens' future and we value the natural resources that support our families," won't cut it with this group. What have you done to benefit the communities you've visited besides film, interview, and pay for fuel? Simple guy talk - you talk the talk, but do you walk the walk?
Is it information and images that you record from your travels while demonstrating vendors products along the way? Is it marketing the routes your adventures were performed on - those state and county public roads, or are these exclusive trails and properties you have leased and are paying the owners for access? Perhaps its recording the images and describing the products donated, or offered at reduced prices unavailable to the public by sponsors you're developing as you build up your personal vehicles? I just don't see how you're protecting anything when it's under the guise of marketing or acquiring new products for your use. More has to go into the community than what you plow back into your trips, photography and video equipment, and your personal vehicles.
As you know - I brought it up - I don't care for your coffee stand. I think it's wasteful, and your mark-up shameful, especially since that drip coffee maker is designed to sit on the bloody cup in the first place. Made in West Virginia by who? Jeremy, Jason, or Jamie of Team MSO; perhaps another deserving population or business that would appreciate the extra work and keep employees active vice looking for work? However, tell me that the profits for the hoodie, routes, bumper sticker, drip stand, and coozies advertising MSO will go back to a verifiable charity, advocacy, or civic group based in West Virginia and I might re-consider my harsh criticism.
Enlightened? Your reply indicates a complete absence of illumination demonstrated by obfuscation, and your avoidance and trivialization of Haggis's remarks, which in turn only heightens my and others suspicions of your motives as mercenary and less than supportive of the communities you claim to protect.
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Well boy, thank you for confirming my suspicions. From that statement alone it is very evident on what your true opinion of the folks who live in the areas you claim to want to protect. Such arrogant prejudice. You sir might live in an area within the Appalachians but you don'e know squat about Appalachia. You have managed to malign a great many people with your condescending attitude and shown your true colors as a man and as a member of the overlanding community. And those colors ain't favorable boy.
My grandpa once told me to be careful who you associate with as one of the true measures of a man (and for that matter an organization) is the quality of the folks he surrounds himself with. I advise our friends and members to think deeply on the words of MSO captured here and come to their own conclusion as to the conflict of what a man child claims and what he actually does.
And for the record this is why I will have no parley with the likes of MSO.
There is a part of me that is screaming not to chime in here, but I have a head cold, and might have taken a double dose of nighttime cold medicine.
First, love the idea of the magazine, I really need to subscribe. Keep up the good work. I appreciate the thoughtful dialogue, and was glad that you clearly took it for what it was, a chance to make your publication better.
Second, I harbor no resentment for the MSO boys. They found a way to contribute to their livelihood doing something that they love. More power to them. I do take exception, to the toothless drug addict line, as I grew up in a rural area as well (in the west, not Appalachia) and while there is a considerable amount of negative culture there is a lot of positive as well. Though I can't imagine trying to capture either in camera without getting an opportunity to inspect the rifling on the barrel of a large caliber hunting implement. In short, if you don't like the videos or the guys who produce them, don't watch. I have a friend who feels the same way about the American sniper movie, he is a marine corp sniper and is concerned about the way the movie portrays certain things on both sides of the issue, just as haggis was stating in his post. This however doesn't take anything away from the entertainment value of either production.
Lastly, (and this may be the cold medicine speaking) can't we all just get along? There is no reason to be attacking each other or entire regional groups. On that note, eyes are getting a little blurry and I'm going to sleep, I just hope I didn't say anything that I am going to regret in the morning.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
First, love the idea of the magazine, I really need to subscribe. Keep up the good work. I appreciate the thoughtful dialogue, and was glad that you clearly took it for what it was, a chance to make your publication better.
Second, I harbor no resentment for the MSO boys. They found a way to contribute to their livelihood doing something that they love. More power to them. I do take exception, to the toothless drug addict line, as I grew up in a rural area as well (in the west, not Appalachia) and while there is a considerable amount of negative culture there is a lot of positive as well. Though I can't imagine trying to capture either in camera without getting an opportunity to inspect the rifling on the barrel of a large caliber hunting implement. In short, if you don't like the videos or the guys who produce them, don't watch. I have a friend who feels the same way about the American sniper movie, he is a marine corp sniper and is concerned about the way the movie portrays certain things on both sides of the issue, just as haggis was stating in his post. This however doesn't take anything away from the entertainment value of either production.
Lastly, (and this may be the cold medicine speaking) can't we all just get along? There is no reason to be attacking each other or entire regional groups. On that note, eyes are getting a little blurry and I'm going to sleep, I just hope I didn't say anything that I am going to regret in the morning.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Back on track... Thanks for putting out a very good magazine! I especially like the online version since I'm never sure if my mail will make it past the sticky fingers of the military postal system 
I really appreciate the stories of travels near and far for when I'm unable to get out on my own.
I would like to see a more structured testing methodology used in gear reviews though, with test data and measurements in a real world controlled environment. Example: the cooler testing a few issues ago. A measured weight of ice and identical products in each cooler with timed internal and external (ambient) temperature measurements would have been helpful to compare relative insulating properties. And I would love to see some affordable LED light bars tested
And in keeping with the spirit of the thread:
I have NOT stayed at a holiday in recently. But I am an engineer
I really appreciate the stories of travels near and far for when I'm unable to get out on my own. I would like to see a more structured testing methodology used in gear reviews though, with test data and measurements in a real world controlled environment. Example: the cooler testing a few issues ago. A measured weight of ice and identical products in each cooler with timed internal and external (ambient) temperature measurements would have been helpful to compare relative insulating properties. And I would love to see some affordable LED light bars tested
And in keeping with the spirit of the thread:
I have NOT stayed at a holiday in recently. But I am an engineer
I have stayed at several holiday inn express establishments over the years, and I'm also an engineer, so that makes me an "expert" in every subject. 
I have also had the privilege to hang with James several times, and I find his work to be an extension of his personality: Methodical, curious, inventive, and dedicated.
So... my "expert" opinion on the discourse:
Classy.
Not classy.
Also, MSO has open questions posed to them that are as yet unanswered. (I'll offer some unsolicited advice here. Both Tango and Haggis are intuitive and intelligent individuals. Responses to their questions or positions should be well thought out and contain supporting evidence where possible)
Civil discourse among peers should be encouraged. Constructive criticism is how improvements are made.
I have also had the privilege to hang with James several times, and I find his work to be an extension of his personality: Methodical, curious, inventive, and dedicated.
So... my "expert" opinion on the discourse:
... however I'd gladly share more of my personal and professional background in-person, maybe over a coffee, or cocktail
Classy.
Not classy.
Also, MSO has open questions posed to them that are as yet unanswered. (I'll offer some unsolicited advice here. Both Tango and Haggis are intuitive and intelligent individuals. Responses to their questions or positions should be well thought out and contain supporting evidence where possible)
Civil discourse among peers should be encouraged. Constructive criticism is how improvements are made.
Getting caught up here. 3 wacks from Tango's cane??? 
Bwahahahahahaha!
First off let me say that I too was disappointed with this issue for all the stated reasons. But it is what it is and I'm sure no one was more horrified to see the typos in Issue 7 than Frank and the staff at OX4. I have a feeling that the level of pre-print scrutiny at their office just went beyond OCD and this won't happen again.
FWIW, here is the great ad that Mitch made that was supposed to run in this issue, look for this in Issue 8!
And while I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night, I did found this Forum with the intent of providing an alternative to the "bought and paid for" viewpoints that are promoted elsewhere. As for any pointed questions in regards to vendor OutdoorX4 or blogger Mountain State Overland (and MSO's stated mission) let me remind everyone of Forum Rule #15 and #16:
Perception IS reality and the perception of our Membership, right or wrong, is always up for debate. If a business or blog or any entity draws the ire or gets questioned by the Membership here it is on them to reply for themselves. Maintaining our objectivity as an organization is the linchpin of our credibility - worth more than any one single sponsorship or bauble. We don't do the fanboy thing here at American Adventurist as stated in rule #16 above.
That said, I spoke with Jason at MSO on the phone today. He intends to set the record straight here so let's give him and Mountain State Overland a chance to answer, point by point, the concerns that have been raised. They're busy guys just like us with families and such so let's give them a chance to react to these concerns that have been raised by our Members here.
At the end of the day, this is how many great friendships began - in disagreement. Hell, I'm still friends with Tango and Haggis after all these years of butting heads so I'm looking forward to the other side of the story from Mountain State Overland and moving forward.
Bwahahahahahaha!
First off let me say that I too was disappointed with this issue for all the stated reasons. But it is what it is and I'm sure no one was more horrified to see the typos in Issue 7 than Frank and the staff at OX4. I have a feeling that the level of pre-print scrutiny at their office just went beyond OCD and this won't happen again.
FWIW, here is the great ad that Mitch made that was supposed to run in this issue, look for this in Issue 8!
And while I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night, I did found this Forum with the intent of providing an alternative to the "bought and paid for" viewpoints that are promoted elsewhere. As for any pointed questions in regards to vendor OutdoorX4 or blogger Mountain State Overland (and MSO's stated mission) let me remind everyone of Forum Rule #15 and #16:
Perception IS reality and the perception of our Membership, right or wrong, is always up for debate. If a business or blog or any entity draws the ire or gets questioned by the Membership here it is on them to reply for themselves. Maintaining our objectivity as an organization is the linchpin of our credibility - worth more than any one single sponsorship or bauble. We don't do the fanboy thing here at American Adventurist as stated in rule #16 above.
That said, I spoke with Jason at MSO on the phone today. He intends to set the record straight here so let's give him and Mountain State Overland a chance to answer, point by point, the concerns that have been raised. They're busy guys just like us with families and such so let's give them a chance to react to these concerns that have been raised by our Members here.
At the end of the day, this is how many great friendships began - in disagreement. Hell, I'm still friends with Tango and Haggis after all these years of butting heads so I'm looking forward to the other side of the story from Mountain State Overland and moving forward.
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100acre
Adventurist
Where is the happy medium in the old and new Appalachia. I personally lean towards the old ways and the toothless Jaw Harp pickers. I don't care much for what has happened to my tiny little mountain town but I understand progress and innovation. Where is the common ground for which the two can mingle without starting a bar fight? I'm wholeheartedly in agreement towards what this site and others like us represent and the giving to communities back what you take away with you when you pass through. I also understand the need to make money to support certain needs but there are other ways to sell the idea than what I've felt how MSO represents itself. The coffee stand is for yuppie wannabe expedition types I'm guessing, personally I think it's a really lame product for overlanders, it's just another trinket of bling without any real overland use. It may look cool to some guy in his high rise office dreaming of freedom in the wilds of this Earth but to us, I'd rather read about some useful comparison topics like ; " What's the best coffee maker for the world traveler while cruising through the Waterpocketfold ? ", or " Where can I find a wonderful micro-brewed Camel-Free root beer in the southern deserts of Morocco?" Each to their own, but I do like OutdoorX4 though, and I've never stayed in a Holiday Inn because they don't allow dogs, nor am I an engineer but I can build a damn fine outhouse!
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That really is a good question, and one that I think MSO would like to help solve.
Let's all stop posting in this thread and give the guys at MSO a chance to clear the air before we ask any more questions of them OK folks?
msoverland
Adventurist
If we offended anyone for any reason, please accept my sincere apology. Our intentions as a team are nothing more than to share a positive message, offer alternatives to any negative Appalachian stereotypes and promote adventure tourism in the East.
How do we give back? MSO uses film to make it happen. To get the full picture, you have to watch the whole season. You'll witness our level of commitment to supporting our region and sharing stories; here's a breakdown of each production -
Episode 1 - Bethlehem Farm; a Catholic community in Summers County, WV that transforms lives through service with the local community and the teaching of sustainable practices. Our interview with Eric helped him reach out and establish new relationships locally for recruiting service volunteers and home repair materials for people in need.
Episode 2 - Water4WV; we bought/hauled a truck load of water to WV as aid for the residents impacted by the Freedom Industries Chemical Spill.
Episode 3 - Welcome to Whitegrass; we like Chip and stand behind everything he does. Chip works hard to keep the lights on, so we decided to come up and give him a fresh video for his blog.
Episode 4 - Overland Appalachia; just a fun story and adventure to promote responsibly tourism in Appalachia.
Episode 5 - Educating the High Country; a non-profit with a mission that we whole heartedly stand behind and they needed their story told. We filmed in exchange for one seriously epic campsite.
Episode 6 and Main Line Interview; we offered to help promote their business and their first annual overland festival because we support their efforts, bottom line.
Interview with WV Wilderness Coalition - We support the efforts under way to bring a National Monument to the Mountain State, so we setup an interview with Mike to help extend awareness beyond their reach.
Episode 7 - Going South - well...we deserved to have a weekend off the clock
How do we make money? We spend money, LOL! We have day jobs and honestly, we sell next to nothing on the MSO website. Want a hoodie? Some of our new sponsorships are nothing more than "gifts of gratitude" in exchange for independent or collaborative work. All we're trying to do is tell stories, make an impact and have fun doing it; now we have companies that stand behind our efforts.
Where we grew up? Putnam and Greenbrier County, WV and Alleghany County, VA - we are from the mountains and we live in the mountains. You can find more details about each of us in the bios on our website.
What's next? More of the same and we're heading South.
If we can share great stories and encourage just one person to live a little more responsibly; I think we've done our job. I hope I covered most of the questions, sorry if I didn't catch everything. Tango and Haggis, I'll follow up with a PM and my cell so we can clear up anything else offline. Cheers, have a wonderful evening everybody!
Jason and Team MSO
How do we give back? MSO uses film to make it happen. To get the full picture, you have to watch the whole season. You'll witness our level of commitment to supporting our region and sharing stories; here's a breakdown of each production -
Episode 1 - Bethlehem Farm; a Catholic community in Summers County, WV that transforms lives through service with the local community and the teaching of sustainable practices. Our interview with Eric helped him reach out and establish new relationships locally for recruiting service volunteers and home repair materials for people in need.
Episode 2 - Water4WV; we bought/hauled a truck load of water to WV as aid for the residents impacted by the Freedom Industries Chemical Spill.
Episode 3 - Welcome to Whitegrass; we like Chip and stand behind everything he does. Chip works hard to keep the lights on, so we decided to come up and give him a fresh video for his blog.
Episode 4 - Overland Appalachia; just a fun story and adventure to promote responsibly tourism in Appalachia.
Episode 5 - Educating the High Country; a non-profit with a mission that we whole heartedly stand behind and they needed their story told. We filmed in exchange for one seriously epic campsite.
Episode 6 and Main Line Interview; we offered to help promote their business and their first annual overland festival because we support their efforts, bottom line.
Interview with WV Wilderness Coalition - We support the efforts under way to bring a National Monument to the Mountain State, so we setup an interview with Mike to help extend awareness beyond their reach.
Episode 7 - Going South - well...we deserved to have a weekend off the clock
How do we make money? We spend money, LOL! We have day jobs and honestly, we sell next to nothing on the MSO website. Want a hoodie? Some of our new sponsorships are nothing more than "gifts of gratitude" in exchange for independent or collaborative work. All we're trying to do is tell stories, make an impact and have fun doing it; now we have companies that stand behind our efforts.
Where we grew up? Putnam and Greenbrier County, WV and Alleghany County, VA - we are from the mountains and we live in the mountains. You can find more details about each of us in the bios on our website.
What's next? More of the same and we're heading South.
If we can share great stories and encourage just one person to live a little more responsibly; I think we've done our job. I hope I covered most of the questions, sorry if I didn't catch everything. Tango and Haggis, I'll follow up with a PM and my cell so we can clear up anything else offline. Cheers, have a wonderful evening everybody!
Jason and Team MSO
OutdoorX4
Adventurist
Ha! Dave, thanks for so clearly pointing out the ad that SHOULD have been in this issue.
In all seriousness though, we may have had a few items that somehow missed copy edit but fortunately that has never/will never happen with frequency and we still continue to strive to put together a great issue of OutdoorX4 Magazine with every release. In the meantime, I hope everyone who has received, or would like to view, this issue enjoys its content as we as a staff believe it's a good one. Feel free to view it in digital at issue7.outdoorx4.com, pick-up a copy at your local Barnes & Noble or other major book retailer starting 2/17, or from our online store at www.outdoorx4.com/main/shop.
In all seriousness though, we may have had a few items that somehow missed copy edit but fortunately that has never/will never happen with frequency and we still continue to strive to put together a great issue of OutdoorX4 Magazine with every release. In the meantime, I hope everyone who has received, or would like to view, this issue enjoys its content as we as a staff believe it's a good one. Feel free to view it in digital at issue7.outdoorx4.com, pick-up a copy at your local Barnes & Noble or other major book retailer starting 2/17, or from our online store at www.outdoorx4.com/main/shop.
Thanks for your thoughtful reply Jason. Elaborating on your organizations intentions goes a long way to clarifying MSO's motivations.
I accept that your intentions are genuinely good and you all hope to enhance the lives of communities you purport to represent. The challenge is being able to communicate that to ensure transparency in an effort to educate the intended audience and avoid critical review. Establishing clear criteria with observable and measurable outcomes is probably the best practice to demonstrate the results of your efforts and arguably, a video as a tool by itself, is exquisitely difficult to measure. As an example, this is why American Adventurist deliberately plans the efforts and contributions from Rendezvous events in such a fashion as to withstand external scrutiny. Contributions to the hosting communities from these events are immediate and are observable and measurable by the volume of trash collected, physical property enhancements, or monetary contributions to local communities for unfunded people-centered projects. This has resulted in invitations to return, a rare occurrence these days among OHV groups and an intangible - it reinforces an enduring positive image for the overlanding OHV community.
Trading work for services or products is a well established practice and is as American as it ever gets and often results in bringing groups of people together and strengthening community bonds. I can't fault you for that but it is the commercial aspects of personal gain that often come to readers minds when viewing some subjects. Sponsorship infers you're getting something for free or at reduced prices in exchange for something. That can be perceived as opportunism; and even though Americans appreciate the hard work and initiative of an entrepreneur, they loathe those that take advantage of circumstances. It's a fine line between entrepreneurism and opportunism. Your motives and how you may benefit from them needs to be really clear and up-front in your message.
I've had the good fortune of working for some extraordinary leaders in my lifetime and one was Marine General Charles Krulak. He observed many years ago (a lot of stuff these days is now framed in "many years ago") that, "perception is reality." That's absolutely the worst potential reputation MSO could ever acquire and I assert your efforts would be well spent in preventing that perception, especially in @social media.
What's next? I hope you continue your efforts, perhaps with a little more introspection, as you develop MSO's 2015-2016 engagement strategy. As I observed in a previous post, Appalachia is a region that covers millions of square miles from Maine to Georgia. I hope this year you'll be able to include the Appalachian Rendezvous in Uwharrie, NC this September. It was a lot of fun to observe separate groups from as far north as NJ and PA to FL, West from CA and OH, with a smattering from VA, WV, NC, SC, GA and a few other states I probably neglected to include.
Observing the social dynamic of different people and small groups coming together at the Dutch Oven Competition/Potluck group meal and community fire ring, forging new relationships and partnerships during the Mountain Bike Rides, Canoeing, Kayaking, Trail Riding, and Training was for me, an endearing memory and certainly a message to reinforce through video (along with the Main Line Overland Event) the positive impact the Overlanding Community can have, not just regionally, but nationally.
But consider really joining this community. MSO is not an entity by itself but part of a larger community, one where you have the potential to influence a National audience, but not through an occasional post advertising a video. Extending your friendship and establishing relationships through this forum will go a long way to personalizing your adventures and building enduring partnerships.
Again, thanks for your courteous and thoughtful reply.
DiamondBackMatt
Adventurist
Thank You Everyone and especially BlkWgn for ending it on a humorous note!
I am going to prune this thread shortly and start a new thread to discuss Community and Site issues, let's respect the OP of this thread and allow it to get back on track please.
That new thread can be found here: http://americanadventurist.com/Foru...etter-An-Ongoing-Discussion&p=35236#post35236
That new thread can be found here: http://americanadventurist.com/Foru...etter-An-Ongoing-Discussion&p=35236#post35236
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Scott
Adventurist
You mean the dirty power wagon with all the scratches and dents??? How did that thing make a magazine????I just want to point out, that there are photos from two trips with AAV in issue 7. The photo behind the table of contents and the Joshua Tree photo towards the back.
and yes, I am only pointing this out because my truck is in both photos
just Bustin your balls a bit buddy.. love your wagon. You know that.