OutdoorX4 Issue 7 Has Shipped!

OutdoorX4

Adventurist
Issue 7 of OutdoorX4 Magazine has launched and the digital edition can be viewed at issue7.outdoorx4.com. Special thanks to Dave Bennett and Cifaldi Photography for their contributions in this issue. :)

Visit the Vendor Marketplace here at AAV to get info on discounts for subscriptions to AAV members. In the meantime, enjoy issue #7!

Issue 7 Front Cover for Email.jpg
 
cant wait to get it. It is a good excuse to go camping so I can read it next to the campfire :campfire
 
Got mine today! Terrific read as always. Particularly looking forward to the Maine trip!
Thanks Frank!!!!
 
I received my new issue earlier this week and was certainly impressed by the pictures and some of the articles as always, but I have to admit it was outweighed by some of the other items that caught my attention. I'd like to hear other folks impression to validate my own.

On page 13 the magazine displayed Mountain State Overland's new Coffee Drip Stand. A drip coffee maker for 1 cup of joe designed to rest on a coffee mug now needs a MSO designed stand made of copper tubing originally intended for plumbing? From their web store for a mere $65.00... "The Overland Coffee Drip Stand is designed for rugged use and serves a vital role in Team MSO's kitchen set. This coffee drip stand is hand built and soldered to accommodate two Hario VO2 coffee drips when you're on the go. The stand is designed to break down or assemble in seconds for easy storage. If you like a solid cup of java off the beaten path, then the Overland Coffee Drip Stand is your only choice." Perhaps it's just me but I think any serious camper is going to choose to use their Vario drip coffee maker the way they intended it to be used and leave the copper tubing where it was intended to be - the plumbing aisle at Home Depot. Or use the stand more appropriately in the new age hipster kitchen as a curio. Not useful... gets three whacks from Tangos cane. :tango :tango :tango

On page 14 more news was featured. Nissan's new diesel Titan to be released in late 2015. Do tell... this looks like the dawn of a new era with a V8 TD option -- you know Toyota must be staring at the Datsun gauntlet tossed in their face of a once dominated market. Will this challenge go unanswered? Will it change the minds of Toyota Corporate leadership?This indeed deserves another look... Wait - whaat? The new Titan looks remarkably like a Tacoma right down to the Toyota grill garnish. Seriously? The Journalist's eye missed this faux pas? Thumbs up on the pertinent news but it still earned three whacks from Tangos cane. :tango :tango :tango

I'm filled with questions... on page 57... The American Adventurist Rendezvous ad? Is Frank reminding us of last Octobers 2014 Appalachian Rendezvous to reinforce with readers of what they failed to attend? Did Dave fail to provide American Adventurist current advertising for our three events in 2015? Tango's cane is cocked and prepared to deliver whacks once we get the answer here...

In all seriousness now, let's shift gears... I question the safety of modifications advocated in this article and the liability assumed by the author and publisher. Page 78 features "Accelerator Pedal Drivability Modifications" which describes the authors experience and instructions for modifying the "feel" or responsiveness of modern electronically controlled throttles or specifically, drive-by-wire accelerator pedals. Using a selection of coins as 'shims', electrical tape, a selection of hardware store springs, and a bracket fashioned from "aluminum billet," the author goes on to describe his experience modifying the "feel" of his accelerator under foot. He concludes that they are simple, inexpensive, and easily reversible modifications.

My conclusion is different - I assert this is dangerous and irresponsible. But first - I am not an engineer - so please take my counsel for what it's worth. I can't speak to the author's curriculum vitae... he may very well have an alphabet soup of engineering degree acronyms behind his name and if so all I can offer is a hearty, "gomen nasai."

My rationale. In 2009 Toyota experienced a number of issues with its Electronic Throttle Control System (ETCS) or what we call, an accelerator. Among the issues were unintended acceleration which in some cases resulted in well-reported death and injury. This ultimately resulted in a 7.5 million vehicle recall in the US that the factory, along with the NHTSA, initiated requiring replacment of the ETCS with a newly redesigned model and modification to the vehicles software program residing on their ECU's. Worldwide the number of vehicles recalled was 9 million. As of 2013 Toyota remains in settlement talks with its plaintiffs. Simple guy conclusion - 'don't mess with ETCS.'

I like analogies. They take complex things and break them down into more easily understood concepts. But the analogy the author cites, "If there is too much take-up travel, like a sloppy trigger on a gun, you are just moving the pedal." Misleading. This is confusing a purely mechanical system with an electro-mechanical system. The function is similar but the reactions and variables are different and hence unpredictable, even by an army of engineers. If you doubt that please re-read the paragraph above and the Billions of dollars spent by Toyota Motor Corporation in reengineering, repairs, and litigation.

Modification components. Coins as shims - enough said. Electrical tape - I don't trust electrical tape to secure anything; the adhesive is unpredicatable as it is exposed to dirt and heat and will in short time loose any adhesive property. Hardware store ferrous metal springs are great for screen doors but again are equally unpredictable due to the forces of elastic hysteresis. A bracket formed of "billet" aluminum. Where do we get such a thing? A "billet" of aluminum is a block of solid aluminum that is forged at the foundry. The foundry takes pure, raw aluminum and combines it with other metals and/or minerals to form different alloys and grades of aluminum, e.g., 7075 T6 and 6061 T6. Once the materials are combined, smelted, and all impurities removed... billets are formed by placing the molten aluminum in a form under intense pressure. The high pressure removes all traces of air and gas, aligns and merges the molecules, resulting in a solid block of aluminum that is extremely dense, super strong, and has no discernable grain (non-porous). Basically, a huge, single molecule of aluminum. This bracket would have to be CNC'd fashioned to have the necessary predictable strength to maintain that hardware store spring in relationship to the coin and ETCS to be reliable. The bracket shown in the article picture appears to be simple, maleable, extruded aluminum stock (that lacks the strength of that metal in billet form), often sourced in the same hardware stores that carry household replacement springs.

My conclusion is this is a clever well-intentioned throttle modification with potentially unintended consequences and I advise against it for the reasons I cite above. I also ran this by a couple of skilled, experienced mechanics and fabricators I know and they are reluctant to support this modification as well. But on a lighter note - to the home fabricator, publisher, and author, my caution to any and all performing this accelerator modification... Better Call Saul. ;)

Finally, my comments do not reflect the opinion of American Adventurist. This post is not intended to malign Frank Ledwell's publication or efforts - I have nothing but respect and praise for his vision, hard work and integrity. Nor do I post this to discredit James Langan or his ingenuity. But it is offered as a differing viewpoint and one I feel compelled to respond to for the benefit of the members of this forum - please, when performing any modification to your vehicle operating and safety systems examine every aspect of the unintended consequences of its operation. I will also communicate this with Frank and other observations via separate correspondence.
 
First off, thanks to everyone for the fine comments and remarks as always. It's hard work putting together a publication that meets my expectations, vision, and correlates with the mission of achieving a balance of adventure and responsible recreation, all while trying to maximize the scope and reach so the masses (and not just a 2% niche) can identify with its content.

With respect the MSO's Coffee Drip, I found it to be a clever piece of equipment that's easily stowed away and serves a myriad of purposes, not just as a coffee drip but can be used as a water filtration system with the proper filters, etc. I had no problem sharing this $65 gear because regardless of how it's made, I found it to be an intriguing product whose American ingenuity should actually be reflective of what being an American Adventurist is all about. Plus, we have chosen to expand our relationship with MSO because I believe their goal of providing engaging and educational content from Appalachia is one that is sorely needed in that particular region. That's why we also are 100% supportive of AAV's goal to host events such as Appalachian Rendezvous, etc.

Regarding the error in the Newswire section related to the Tacoma vs. Titan, this error was found but unfortunately not until we had already gone to press. I have acknowledged the error in a short Editor Note to be placed in the Letters & Photos from the Field section of our next issue. Unfortunately, we're all human and sometimes errors like this can happen though I don't expect them to happen with any frequency.

Lastly, with respect to James Langan's accelerator pedal modification, I agreed to publish it and stand by James' conclusions based on his 25+ years of experience. In case you don't know, James is not only the newest member of our editorial team, serving as a Senior Editor, but he's also been on the staff of OJ as their Senior Tech Editor since close to inception. His credibility and knowledge of technical subjects as they relate to overlanding is nary secondary to none. I particularly liked this editorial because it also proves that small, inexpensive modifications can make a world of difference when driving off-pavement and that too, correlates with my mission to provide a publication of which most anyone can identify with.

Again, I appreciate all the feedback and I welcome it 100%. I am continually striving to make each issue of OutdoorX4 Magazine better than the previous issue and I believe this has mostly been achieved. At the end of the day, OutdoorX4 can't exist without the support and feedback that each of you provides and for that, I am extremely thankful. Keep the comments coming and feel free to continue this dialogue.
 
First off, thanks to everyone for the fine comments and remarks as always. It's hard work putting together a publication that meets my expectations, vision, and correlates with the mission of achieving a balance of adventure and responsible recreation, all while trying to maximize the scope and reach so the masses (and not just a 2% niche) can identify with its content.

With respect the MSO's Coffee Drip, I found it to be a clever piece of equipment that's easily stowed away and serves a myriad of purposes, not just as a coffee drip but can be used as a water filtration system with the proper filters, etc. I had no problem sharing this $65 gear because regardless of how it's made, I found it to be an intriguing product whose American ingenuity should actually be reflective of what being an American Adventurist is all about. Plus, we have chosen to expand our relationship with MSO because I believe their goal of providing engaging and educational content from Appalachia is one that is sorely needed in that particular region. That's why we also are 100% supportive of AAV's goal to host events such as Appalachian Rendezvous, etc.

Regarding the error in the Newswire section related to the Tacoma vs. Titan, this error was found but unfortunately not until we had already gone to press. I have acknowledged the error in a short Editor Note to be placed in the Letters & Photos from the Field section of our next issue. Unfortunately, we're all human and sometimes errors like this can happen though I don't expect them to happen with any frequency.

Lastly, with respect to James Langan's accelerator pedal modification, I agreed to publish it and stand by James' conclusions based on his 25+ years of experience. In case you don't know, James is not only the newest member of our editorial team, serving as a Senior Editor, but he's also been on the staff of OJ as their Senior Tech Editor since close to inception. His credibility and knowledge of technical subjects as they relate to overlanding is nary secondary to none. I particularly liked this editorial because it also proves that small, inexpensive modifications can make a world of difference when driving off-pavement and that too, correlates with my mission to provide a publication of which most anyone can identify with.

Again, I appreciate all the feedback and I welcome it 100%. I am continually striving to make each issue of OutdoorX4 Magazine better than the previous issue and I believe this has mostly been achieved. At the end of the day, OutdoorX4 can't exist without the support and feedback that each of you provides and for that, I am extremely thankful. Keep the comments coming and feel free to continue this dialogue.

I appreciate the invitation to continue this dialog and if you could close the loop on a couple points I brought up, I and a few others would enjoy your reply.

Thanks for your reply Frank! I appreciate your feedback on some of the points that I mentioned and I'll be looking forward to that cup of coffee brewed from your MSO, WV crafted, drip stand and Hario of Japan drip coffee cone at the Overland Expo in Mormon Lake this coming May. I won't have one because I travel with enough gear already and don't need a specific rack to hold a drip coffee maker or two, or any decorative pieces adorning my camp table. Function over Form. That's one of the requirements of self-sufficiency which is a tenet of American Adventurism. In turn, I'll offer you a cup-a-Joe from my AEROBIE Aeropress - an innovative coffee press that prepares one of the richest, smoothest, least bitter cups of coffee you'll ever enjoy! Plus it takes up the space equivalent to a 1 liter Gatorade bottle. Better yet, the Aeropress is made right here in the USA since 1984 in California. I sense a Coffee-off in the making... ;)

I sincerely respect your willingness to stand behind James Langan's article modifying Automotive Electronic Throttle Control Systems with common, inexpensive household items. Like I stated earlier, I have no personal connection to James, or have met him, and I'm sure he's a great fellow. I also mentioned that I am not an engineer but failed to add that I have slept in several Holiday Inn Express's... so I have that going for me, which is nice.

You mentioned above that James was with Overland Journal as Senior Tech Editor and he is OutdoorX4's new Senior Editor; you also mentioned 25+ years of expereince, but experience in what? Just what specifically is that experience? As an editor - no doubt - you demonstrated that. But I don't take my truck to get worked on by journalists (said in jest, not in snark). Is he an engineer? A certified mechanic? Electrician? Or just a clever guy? Just what in particular should distinguish his "25+ years of experience" that would encourage any of our forum members to grab a handful of change, springs, tape, and sticks of aluminum and start fidgeting with their electronically controlled accelerators? I'm not being argumentative to aggravate you Frank, but I feel a responsibility to our members and refuse to support questionable modifications that could jeopardize they or their families safety. How about a more detailed introduction of James, if not just to placate this guy with 58+ years of experience? :tango

Fianlly, you did not address the printing of American Adventurist's advertisement of last year. What's up with that? Do I need to counsel Dave for not submitting copy to you on a timely basis? :D

Again, thank you for your reply to my post... this only reinforces the high-regard I hold for you and the integrity you demonstrate Frank.

Sincerely... Tim
 
In all seriousness now, let's shift gears... I question the safety of modifications advocated in this article and the liability assumed by the author and publisher. Page 78 features "Accelerator Pedal Drivability Modifications" which describes the authors experience and instructions for modifying the "feel" or responsiveness of modern electronically controlled throttles or specifically, drive-by-wire accelerator pedals. Using a selection of coins as 'shims', electrical tape, a selection of hardware store springs, and a bracket fashioned from "aluminum billet," the author goes on to describe his experience modifying the "feel" of his accelerator under foot. He concludes that they are simple, inexpensive, and easily reversible modifications.


My conclusion is different - I assert this is dangerous and irresponsible. But first - I am not an engineer - so please take my counsel for what it's worth. I can't speak to the author's curriculum vitae... he may very well have an alphabet soup of engineering degree acronyms behind his name and if so all I can offer is a hearty, "gomen nasai."


Firstly, I certainly don't have the time or inclination to respond to all forum posts that may disagree or dislike something I write. Heck, that might be another part-time job for me. ;) You make some valid and interesting points, we can probably agree-to-disagree on some and agree on others. I'll take the time here both to participate and support OutdoorX4 and American Adventurist.


I'm certainly not an engineer, just an experienced gearhead and operator of wheeled-vehicles, from large trucks to motorcycles, probably no different than many here.


My rationale. In 2009 Toyota experienced a number of issues with its Electronic Throttle Control System (ETCS) or what we call, an accelerator. Among the issues were unintended acceleration which in some cases resulted in well-reported death and injury. This ultimately resulted in a 7.5 million vehicle recall in the US that the factory, along with the NHTSA, initiated requiring replacment of the ETCS with a newly redesigned model and modification to the vehicles software program residing on their ECU's. Worldwide the number of vehicles recalled was 9 million. As of 2013 Toyota remains in settlement talks with its plaintiffs. Simple guy conclusion - 'don't mess with ETCS.'


My simple-guy conclusion based on this information is different... Unfortunately we live in litigious times and in a sue-happy society. If we didn't do or try things for which someone has already won a lawsuit, or agreed to a settlement, vehicular related or not, I think we'd be worse off from an enjoyment-of-life viewpoint.


I've always been a bit skeptical as to the problems of the Toyota accelerator/throttle pedal recall for some applications, but that's just me and my personal bias. If I ever let Toyota perform the pedal recall on my 2006 4Runner, they will cut some length off my accelerator pedal and inspect and possibly confiscate my perfectly-formed, digital-fit aftermarket floor mat to prevent gas pedal to floor mat contact. No thanks. Maybe they will also adjust their programing of the vehicle's ECU, which may or may not help with their safety (liability) concerns? If the ECU programming was/is the real problem, why mess with a perfectly formed and functional pedal and floor mat? Liability concerns? If the ECU programing was/is the problem, or not as on many vehicles, I see external modifications or adjustments that do nothing to change the ECU's operation as benign.


I'm not saying there was no validity to the claims or judgements, I have no direct knowledge. The limited knowledge I have of the Toyota accelerator pedal/uncontrolled acceleration debacle comes from reading a few articles years ago, and news headlines and hearsay. My personal experience with two new Toyotas, one made before and the other after the recall(s), is that the one subject to a recall drives perfectly and needs nothing from a driver's point-of-view. The one made after, a 2011 Tundra, has very touchy throttle/ECU programing in high-range, and I'm amazed that the same company would produce and sell a truck like that after the recalls and negative publicity.


For what it's worth, this same Tundra throttle pedal mod was chronicled in Overland Journal years ago as part of the long-term build I did for OJ on that rig.


Somewhat similar in my mind, the Ford Explorer/Firestone tire debacle from years back, also involving lawsuits and deaths... Probably/maybe Firestone made crappy tires, Ford spec'd too marginal or low a psi, and drivers rarely if ever checked their tire psi to keep them set to that low minimum (as few drivers do, still, and now we have TPMS). Even with these things present, vehicles don't just crash, roll over, or self-destruct when/if a tire blowout occurs. Surely the conditions at the moment matter, but a blowout should be manageable in many normal driving circumstances if the driver is adequately trained, skilled, and responsible [I know, what am I thinking? ;)] .


I like analogies. They take complex things and break them down into more easily understood concepts. But the analogy the author cites, "If there is too much take-up travel, like a sloppy trigger on a gun, you are just moving the pedal." Misleading. This is confusing a purely mechanical system with an electro-mechanical system. The function is similar but the reactions and variables are different and hence unpredictable, even by an army of engineers. If you doubt that please re-read the paragraph above and the Billions of dollars spent by Toyota Motor Corporation in reengineering, repairs, and litigation.



My intent was/is to relay a sensation that I still see as similar, take-up travel by a finger or foot. With much experience in both areas, my thinking is many OutdoorX4 readers might also be able to relate and understand trigger slack take-up with my written description.



Modification components. Coins as shims - enough said. Electrical tape - I don't trust electrical tape to secure anything; the adhesive is unpredicatable as it is exposed to dirt and heat and will in short time loose any adhesive property. Hardware store ferrous metal springs are great for screen doors but again are equally unpredictable due to the forces of elastic hysteresis. A bracket formed of "billet" aluminum. Where do we get such a thing? A "billet" of aluminum is a block of solid aluminum that is forged at the foundry. The foundry takes pure, raw aluminum and combines it with other metals and/or minerals to form different alloys and grades of aluminum, e.g., 7075 T6 and 6061 T6. Once the materials are combined, smelted, and all impurities removed... billets are formed by placing the molten aluminum in a form under intense pressure. The high pressure removes all traces of air and gas, aligns and merges the molecules, resulting in a solid block of aluminum that is extremely dense, super strong, and has no discernable grain (non-porous). Basically, a huge, single molecule of aluminum. This bracket would have to be CNC'd fashioned to have the necessary predictable strength to maintain that hardware store spring in relationship to the coin and ETCS to be reliable. The bracket shown in the article picture appears to be simple, maleable, extruded aluminum stock (that lacks the strength of that metal in billet form), often sourced in the same hardware stores that carry household replacement springs.


I will agree that the electrical tape looks and sounds cheesy, and using something that 'looks' better would be preferred from a perception standpoint. But as much as I like and prefer to do things the best way (often the most expensive and/or difficult), I have a practical side that I'm trying to embrace as I age... The black tape was used for initial testing and proof-of-concept mods on the Tundra. I never changed it, and it has proven reliable for my application for almost four years. I've tried plenty of other vehicular mods and changes that I didn't like or work four years later.


There are better looking, more recent images in my photo library, but unfortunately I couldn't provide these to OutdoorX4 because I had prior commitments with other publications for a new build project. On this newest pedal mod I've used 3M/Scotch outdoor-rated mounting tape (like VHB/very high bond molding mounting tape) to hold the coin spacer.


Maybe I chose the wrong words 'formed' from 'billet', I admit not being a fabricator. However, researching and confirming the definition of billet in a few places just now, it's not necessarily forged, does that change things? I read "...especially forged" but that doesn't mean always. If I was not clear, the the auxiliary spring bracket was fabricated from a chunk of aluminum.


The hardware store springs are the best thing since sliced-bread for these modifications. Many to pick from for trial and error, inexpensive, and work for years. Also, most but not all of my pedal mods have been on modern drive-by-wire accelerator pedals. The 2005 Jeep Rubicon also mentioned in the article was cable-operated, and I used a hardware store spring on the linkage under the hood. Worked.




My conclusion is this is a clever well-intentioned throttle modification with potentially unintended consequences and I advise against it for the reasons I cite above. I also ran this by a couple of skilled, experienced mechanics and fabricators I know and they are reluctant to support this modification as well. But on a lighter note - to the home fabricator, publisher, and author, my caution to any and all performing this accelerator modification... Better Call Saul.
wink.gif


I'm not surprised that experienced and skilled mechanics and fabricators would be reluctant to support such modifications...we may be nearing a time when almost any modification, including engineered changes, are looked upon with great distrust and question. Though I prefer if nobody ever drives my vehicles but me, I'm confident that many drivers would enjoy and appreciate the pedal modifications I've made to my 4WDs in a back-to-back drivability comparison, particularly off-highway and in low-range.




Finally, my comments do not reflect the opinion of American Adventurist. This post is not intended to malign Frank Ledwell's publication or efforts - I have nothing but respect and praise for his vision, hard work and integrity. Nor do I post this to discredit James Langan or his ingenuity. But it is offered as a differing viewpoint and one I feel compelled to respond to for the benefit of the members of this forum - please, when performing any modification to your vehicle operating and safety systems examine every aspect of the unintended consequences of its operation. I will also communicate this with Frank and other observations via separate correspondence.




Exactly, and to quote the article: "As with any modification, it’s the owner’s responsibility to decide what is safe, and only work on things they are comfortable with."


James
 
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snip...How about a more detailed introduction of James, if not just to placate this guy with 58+ years of experience? :tango

The Overland Expo event is a working weekend for me, so I'll likely not have the time... however I'd gladly share more of my personal and professional background in-person, maybe over a coffee, or cocktail :).

There is a short, standard bio at the front of OutdoorX4, but that's not likely what you're after.

I too stayed at a Holiday Inn Express once, isn't that enough ;)

James
 
The Overland Expo event is a working weekend for me, so I'll likely not have the time... however I'd gladly share more of my personal and professional background in-person, maybe over a coffee, or cocktail :).

There is a short, standard bio at the front of OutdoorX4, but that's not likely what you're after.

I too stayed at a Holiday Inn Express once, isn't that enough ;)

James

Thanks for your reply James - I and I'm sure other members appreciate the time you took to craft a reply.

I get it - I tinker too - and your clarification better represents the modification and equips readers with the necessary information to make an informed decision whether or not to attempt this task on their throttle-by-wire pedals than just the article alone. Tinkering and fiddling with mechanical things for 25 years better represents a set of experiences and skills than photo-journalist of 25 years. It appears you laid it all out on the table regarding your skill-sets -- I don't need any more of a bio than what you've explained.

However, we'll have to agree to disagree on the throttle modification, although again, I appreciate your elaboration on that subject. Please keep in mind I'm not preaching against mods or thinking "outside of the box" changes to vehicles. Seriously, look at my truck...

I'll be working and staying at Overland Expo as well, and I will make the time to visit you, in person, with the chance of sharing a cocktail, coffee, or anything else that comes to mind.

What I don't understand is why didn't you just state up front that you stayed at a Holiday Inn Express once, and then we wouldn't have gone through this goat rope? :D
 
Thanks for your reply James - I and I'm sure other members appreciate the time you took to craft a reply.

I get it - I tinker too - and your clarification better represents the modification and equips readers with the necessary information to make an informed decision whether or not to attempt this task on their throttle-by-wire pedals than just the article alone. Tinkering and fiddling with mechanical things for 25 years better represents a set of experiences and skills than photo-journalist of 25 years. It appears you laid it all out on the table regarding your skill-sets -- I don't need any more of a bio than what you've explained.

My time tinkering with wheeled-toys and as a photojournalist are about the same, approx. two+ decades, a bit more time doing it than writing about it. There is always more space online (but not necessarily more time) to elaborate with details than in print, though there is simply no way to include an extensive bio in each magazine or before/in every article. Hopefully pieces are well-written and received and over time readers get to know and respect journalists from their body of work. While articles must fit the pages allotted, I would almost always like to write and share more thoughts and details, but there's always a limit.


However, we'll have to agree to disagree on the throttle modification, although again, I appreciate your elaboration on that subject. Please keep in mind I'm not preaching against mods or thinking "outside of the box" changes to vehicles. Seriously, look at my truck...


Understood sir, and I respect your well-considered yet differing opinion. Surely we both know guys who have modified or built rigs that we don't care for, either because they are not our style or built for activities we don't want to pursue, or as in this case, we simply disagree with their methods. Doesn't make anyone wrong, just different.

Your signature truck sounds capable, cool, and fantastic. Surely you are not against making serious modifications.


I'll be working and staying at Overland Expo as well, and I will make the time to visit you, in person, with the chance of sharing a cocktail, coffee, or anything else that comes to mind.

What I don't understand is why didn't you just state up front that you stayed at a Holiday Inn Express once, and then we wouldn't have gone through this goat rope? :D

Sounds good.

Clearly I wasn't thinking, as you suggested, I should have shared my Holliday Inn Express experience up-front, and saved so much time and energy. ;)

James
 
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we have chosen to expand our relationship with MSO because I believe their goal of providing engaging and educational content from Appalachia is one that is sorely needed in that particular region.

I tell you what Frank, speaking for myself as a true son of Appalachia I do not find the MSO boys to have a true understanding of the region they are travelling in. Hippie farms, ski resorts and the like, while a presence in the West Virginia landscape, are not a part of traditional Appalachian culture and at best are scoffed at by the folks that make up the populace here. What I see presented by MSO instead is an urban/hipster vision of what they perceive the region to be and not a real attempt to understand or promote the unique culture that abides here. I would say that MSO vision of the region is the antithesis of the viewpoints of the old time families that have made the hills and hollers of the Appalachians their home. But the urban/rural conflict of visions is nothing new. I have a hope that MSO will one day take their creative talents to a higher level and try to delve into the true nature of the region that they come to travel in. But I fear that they will always be what we call "flatland foreigners" and be focused more on advancing themselves than the region they claim to be protecting. Just because something is engaging or entertaining does not make the creators experts or worthy of support.

Outdoorx4 said:
That's why we also are 100% supportive of AAV's goal to host events such as Appalachian Rendezvous, etc.

And here's the final rub for me...at AAV all of our fundraising goes directly to serving the communities we find ourselves in. We focus on the adventure seeking community and ask nothing from our fellow travelers but to share their knowledge and stories with us. In the Appalachian's the money we raised at ARV14 all went directly to helping the people of the region whereas MSO's marketing scheme seems to go towards outfitting their rigs. I have yet to see one project, service or charitable act to the benefit of the Appalachian region but see lots of shiny new stuff going on their rigs presumably from the sale of public road GPS tracks and cooper tubing. Seems more a business model than a advocacy group to me.
 
I tell you what Frank, speaking for myself as a true son of Appalachia I do not find the MSO boys to have a true understanding of the region they are travelling in. Hippie farms, ski resorts and the like, while a presence in the West Virginia landscape, are not a part of traditional Appalachian culture and at best are scoffed at by the folks that make up the populace here. What I see presented by MSO instead is an urban/hipster vision of what they perceive the region to be and not a real attempt to understand or promote the unique culture that abides here. I would say that MSO vision of the region is the antithesis of the viewpoints of the old time families that have made the hills and hollers of the Appalachians their home. But the urban/rural conflict of visions is nothing new. I have a hope that MSO will one day take their creative talents to a higher level and try to delve into the true nature of the region that they come to travel in. But I fear that they will always be what we call "flatland foreigners" and be focused more on advancing themselves than the region they claim to be protecting. Just because something is engaging or entertaining does not make the creators experts or worthy of support.



And here's the final rub for me...at AAV all of our fundraising goes directly to serving the communities we find ourselves in. We focus on the adventure seeking community and ask nothing from our fellow travelers but to share their knowledge and stories with us. In the Appalachian's the money we raised at ARV14 all went directly to helping the people of the region whereas MSO's marketing scheme seems to go towards outfitting their rigs. I have yet to see one project, service or charitable act to the benefit of the Appalachian region but see lots of shiny new stuff going on their rigs presumably from the sale of public road GPS tracks and cooper tubing. Seems more a business model than a advocacy group to me.

:like Well said!
 
It sounds like you need to address your concerns about MSO to MSO directly. OutdoorX4 Magazine is a sponsor of their efforts but anything beyond that should be addressed with them.

Tim, regarding the AAV ad in the current issue, errors happen as was noted above. This doesn't, nor should it, reflect the time, quality, and effort the entire OutdoorX4 staff puts into the magazine to ensure that at the end of the day, we're producing a top-notch publication that anybody can identify with. Issue #8 will assuredly be a good one with a nice AAV ad as part of its layout. Stay tuned. :)
 
Just because something is engaging or entertaining does not make the creators experts or worthy of support.

Some good content in your post and I very much agree with the above quote.

I'm a native of Ulster County, NY. Right smack in the Mid-Hudson Valley. Similar in land and features to much of your area, but admittedly a little more stable. Mostly dairy farms, apple orchards and good quality regular country folk. When I see the MSO type videos, I'm drawn to the content, the area and the landscape. Maybe to the point that I may come down and visit the area (This is in context of the regular viewer, I've been through that area and have good friends living in Welch, WV, so I'm somewhat familiar with the hardships of the region) With that being said, if someone sees the MSO videos and takes the time to drive down through that region spending money within the small communities, isn't that the bonus? The videos can only be so long, and access can only be gained to so many places. It's possible there are things in the works that the viewer (you and I) don't see. Pure speculation on my part.

I don't know those guys from Adam, but I know everyone that I've met from that part of the country was welcoming and friendly to me (even though I was a Yankee) I'd love to learn more about the region and if someone was doing a video about Ulster County, NY, I'd be first in line to show them the true nature, feel and identity of my hometown.

The documentary on the "Wild and Wonderful Whites of West Virginia" isn't the most glowing review of an area, but it generated enough publicity that the area saw an uptick in visitors. Good or bad, those visitors are spending money in the community.

I fear that we as an overland (I hate that word), camping, adventure, outdoor recreation community are hurting what should be a solid group of good people enjoying and caring for our natural resources. Keeping our land free and our trails open. People are spending money right now hoping that another truck, suv, atv or motorcycle tire never touches public land again.

Maybe an olive branch to host the MSO boys to some of your favorite spots would facilitate new friendships and new opportunities for good things to happen in your area? I'd watch it!
 
Howdy, wow, hasn't this thread been enlightening!

First - we support Frank, the OutdoorX4 team and everyone that has contributed to writing/building a truly unique magazine. Regardless of the time spent behind your keyboard expressing your thoughts; there will continue to be readers that appreciate the production efforts, content and print quality of OutdoorX4.

Second - Let me sum it up; thanks for watching! We film what we enjoy. We film what we appreciate. And we film because we want to encourage responsible adventure AND living. To keep it simple - if you want to see a documentary about poverty, drug abuse and tooth loss; you're gonna have to find another YouTube channel to subscribe to cause that ain't us my friend.

As a side note, each of us were raised in the Appalachian Mountains, we live here today and the greater majority of us are graduates from the Mountain State. We advocate responsible living because we care about our childrens' future and we value the natural resources that support our families.

Third - If you don't like the coffee drip; cheers and thanks for looking.
 
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