More bad news for diesel

[Trump]

European nations continue phasing out diesel through regulation. Rome is going to start banning them from the city center:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...om-2024-mayor/ar-BBJH13J?li=AA4Zpp&ocid=ientp

From my own experience, Japan has done the same for diesel registration in many cities. Most don't even realize that the re-release that was done with the 70 series a couple years back in Japan was only gas powered--by the same 4.0L (1GR) engine that used to power the Tacoma.

One of the more interesting things from the article is this:

Two days ago, Britain's Financial Times said Italian-American group Fiat Chrysler plans to ditch diesel from all of its passenger vehicles by 2022 following a huge fall in demand and growing costs.

In other words... I wouldn't get used to the diesel Jeep Wrangler staying in the line-up on our shores. Much of the diesel availability to Jeep was due to the European market.

 

[java230]

Its too bad, I am really enjoying my first diesel so far! But I do think DI turbo gas engines have come leaps and bounds in the last decade.

 

[TangoBlue]

The Auto Trends article is almost a year old but it still grabs our attention...
https://auto-trends.net/2019-toyota-diesel-hilux-u-s-market/
2019 Toyota Diesel Hilux For U.S. Market

I can attest that the Toyota diesel engines are in the US and have been tested... all that remains to be seen is a decision.

 

[TangoBlue]

<snip> In other words... I wouldn't get used to the diesel Jeep Wrangler staying in the line-up on our shores. Much of the diesel availability to Jeep was due to the European market.

That's interesting... to extend that thinking, I can see that inventory needs to be depleted and those power-plants being pushed into a US market, only to see that engine offering expiring after a few model years.

 

[bob91yj]

I really think that the diesel engine attraction is from gas engine owners thinking the grass is greener on the other side...until you get there. Diesel exhaust fluid, fuel filters, diesel emissions in general, make todays diesels more maintenance intensive than they used to be.

IMO, if you aren't towing a heavy load, a gas engine is the way to go (I'm a diesel owner).

 

[TangoBlue]

I really think that the diesel engine attraction is from gas engine owners thinking the grass is greener on the other side...until you get there. Diesel exhaust fluid, fuel filters, diesel emissions in general, make todays diesels more maintenance intensive than they used to be.

IMO, if you aren't towing a heavy load, a gas engine is the way to go (I'm a diesel owner).

I've heard the same thing from MANY diesel owners, as they look to the ground and shake their heads. Even small businesses with fleets of vehicles are saying enough - they can't afford the diesels compared to the gasoline powered trucks.

With as complicated as the engines are becoming to achieve government emission and economy mandates, routine maintenance has become even more critical. And that ain't cheap...

 

[Greg]

It could also depend on if/how CAFE standards are relaxed and how the following numbers play into what changes are made.

Hilux 2.4 l D-4D 6-speed AT 4WD
7.8 l/100 km = 30.2mpg

Hilux 2.4 l D-4D 6-speed manual 4WD
7.0 l/100 km = 33.6mpg

source: https://www.toyota-europe.com/new-cars/hilux/index/specs

 

[Bryanseye]

I really think that the diesel engine attraction is from gas engine owners thinking the grass is greener on the other side...

But the fuel nozzle is green.

 

[java230]

But the fuel nozzle is green.

Unless your in Canada and its Yellow

 

[Dave]

Bad rumors... bad bad rumors... hearing that the much awaited Jeep JL EcoDiesel may get the axe because of how things are going in Europe...

 

[Dave]

Unless your in Canada and its Yellow

Or you're at BP station where everything is green... which is why I avoid BP like the plague

 

[Trump]

Bad rumors... bad bad rumors... hearing that the much awaited Jeep JL EcoDiesel may get the axe because of how things are going in Europe...

Rumor or not, unless the EPA standards swing the other way, the U.S. will eventually follow. Aside from the regulation aspect, I will bet (once again) diesel sales will be dismal. Despite everyone in our niche saying they want a small diesel, the majority aren't willing to pay a premium for a slower vehicle with added maintenance cost.

 

[java230]

Rumor or not, unless the EPA standards swing the other way, the U.S. will eventually follow. Aside from the regulation aspect, I will bet (once again) diesel sales will be dismal. Despite everyone in our niche saying they want a small diesel, the majority aren't willing to pay a premium for a slower vehicle with added maintenance cost.

Agreed, the small diesel just dont make sense with how good the new turbo/di gas engines are... The new colorado is a 4k add for the diesel...

 

[Dave]

Rumor or not, unless the EPA standards swing the other way, the U.S. will eventually follow. Aside from the regulation aspect, I will bet (once again) diesel sales will be dismal. Despite everyone in our niche saying they want a small diesel, the majority aren't willing to pay a premium for a slower vehicle with added maintenance cost.

Very true. I estimate an additional $5K for the JL diesel. Ram charges $8K for the Cummins option.

 

[Greg]

2019 Cherokee Latitude Plus 4x4

• 2.4L I4 MultiAir Engine is standard
• 3.2-Liter V6 24-Valve VVT Engine +$1,745
• 2.0L I4 DOHC DI Turbo Engine +$2,245

2019 Cherokee Trailhawk & Trailhawk Elite 4x4

• 3.2-Liter V6 24-Valve VVT Engine is standard
• 2.0L I4 DOHC DI Turbo Engine +$500

Nope. I'm not missing a zero on the end. ( Jeep Build your Own )

 

[Trump]

2019 Cherokee Latitude Plus 4x4

• 2.4L I4 MultiAir Engine is standard
• 3.2-Liter V6 24-Valve VVT Engine +$1,745
• 2.0L I4 DOHC DI Turbo Engine +$2,245

2019 Cherokee Trailhawk & Trailhawk Elite 4x4

• 3.2-Liter V6 24-Valve VVT Engine is standard
• 2.0L I4 DOHC DI Turbo Engine +$500

Nope. I'm not missing a zero on the end. ( Jeep Build your Own )

Not sure what point you are trying to make. What am I missing here?

 

[Greg]

Not sure what point you are trying to make. What am I missing here?

Addressing the last comment from Dave.

Very true. I estimate an additional $5K for the JL diesel. Ram charges $8K for the Cummins option.

The diff between 3.2-Liter V6 Gas and 2.0L turbo diesel is only $500 for the 2019 Cherokee and I suspect JL diesel to be about the same. Unless Jeep really wants to piss off JL customers and charge thousands for what Cherokee customers are getting for $500. That doesn't seem likely though. From what I've been reading Fiat/Chrysler wants to stop diesel production by 2022. Only 4 years away. $500 seems like a move to deplete the stock of diesel engines ASAP.

 

[Trump]

Addressing the last comment from Dave.


The diff between 3.2-Liter V6 Gas and 2.0L turbo diesel is only $500 for the 2019 Cherokee and I suspect JL diesel to be about the same. Unless Jeep really wants to piss off JL customers and charge thousands for what Cherokee customers are getting for $500. That doesn't seem likely though. From what I've been reading Fiat/Chrysler wants to stop diesel production by 2022. Only 4 years away. $500 seems like a move to deplete the stock of diesel engines ASAP.

That is a 2.0L gas engine, not diesel.

 

[Dave]

The VM Motori diesel aka EcoDiesel is a 3.0 liter engine.

The 2.0 liter turbo is a gasser

 

[Mike]

That is a 2.0L gas engine, not diesel.

Yep, I was going to point that out....