Make Sure You Pay All Your Traffic Tickets!

Optimistic Paranoid

Optimistic Paranoid

Adventurist
Michigan lawyer and Youtube star Steve Lehto just did an interesting video about a little noticed recent US Supreme Court Ruling. Strife v Utah.

Cops got an anonymous tip that there was drug activity going on in a certain house. They staked it out. A guy - Strife - came out an started walking down the street. They stopped him, ID's him, and ran him and discovered he had an outstanding warrant for a traffic violation. They then arrested him for that warrant, searched him, and found drugs.

When it went to trial, his defense claimed the cops had no legal grounds to stop him. In the old days, if that were proven, the courts would throw out all of the evidence as "fruit of the poisoned tree".

When this case went to the Supreme Court, BOTH sides admitted it was a bad stop - the cop really had no legal grounds to stop him.

But in a narrow decision, the Supremes said that since there was a warrant out on Strife, the arrest, and the subsequent search was kosher and they upheld the conviction.

The dissenting opinion presented by those who opposed it said cops now have a license to stop anybody and run them for outstanding warrants and just hope they get lucky.

BTW, according to Lehto, government databases show that there are 7.8 million outstanding warrants in the United States, 180,000 in Utah alone.

The video is here:

The moral of the story (especially for those of us who travel around the country) is: Make sure you pay ALL of your traffic tickets so there are no outstanding warrants.
 
If the cops stop someone coming out of a "drug house", is anyone surprised that they would then have their name ran for warrants? This was clearly "Probable Cause".

Me, I have no problem with this. I don’t see this as a 4th Amendment issue of illegal search and seizure - they saw a guy leaving a DRUG HOUSE. Again, clearly probable cause IMO.

Besides, I think these days when police cars have license plate scanning cameras ALL of our plates and ID's are constantly being run through automation anyway. There is no "probable cause" there for any of us - the matrix simply alerts car 54 that your vehicle belongs to a wanted man.

So be smart, don't be a crook and you have no worries. And pay yer fines :lol
 
I was a LEO for a decade and worked drugs for a few of those. If we had a house under surveillance and observed people coming and going to/from it, we usually had a uniformed officer stop them and check ID. Standard practice was to run the name and if it got a hit, that person was arrested. Not sure why anyone would think it was an illegal stop. It's not like the guy was just ambling down the street minding his own business.

On another note, Canada will not allow you across the border with an outstanding traffic warrant and they might stop you if you previously had been arrested for DWI, domestic abuse, etc.
 
We don't need the 4th amendment, I trust the gov:rolleyes:. 1st is under attack from the thought police. 2nd..... don't ask. 3rd, well they haven't asked me to house anyone yet
 
On even number days, I'm a conservative; on odd number days I'm a libertarian.

My main concern here is that it's now possible for cops anywhere to stop anybody just for shits and giggles to check them for outstanding warrants, instead of actually having to have honest-to-God real probable cause to stop someone. That doesn't seem to bother some of you, but it bothers me.
We've gotten one step closer to the kind of police state where they stop people just to demand to see their "papers".

Getting down off my soapbox now . . .
th_soapbox.gif
 
Optimistic Paranoid said:
On even number days, I'm a conservative; on odd number days I'm a libertarian.

My main concern here is that it's now possible for cops anywhere to stop anybody just for shits and giggles to check them for outstanding warrants, instead of actually having to have honest-to-God real probable cause to stop someone. That doesn't seem to bother some of you, but it bothers me.
We've gotten one step closer to the kind of police state where they stop people just to demand to see their "papers".

Getting down off my soapbox now . . . View attachment 46146
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I agree.. my problem is with the "known" part. How is a known drug house any different from a known rape house or known murder house... I thought it was the job of the police to stop illegal activities.

After rereading.. I see that it was a anon tip.. so I guess that does muddy the waters somewhat.
 
Good discussion.

So what about license plate scanning technology? Does that violate the 4th?

:coffee
 
^^^^In a stupid-simplified answer, I don't have a problem with the plate scanners. IMO when you agree to the registration process for a vehicle, you acknowledge that the plate number will be in the public domain, available to everyone that cares to look at it (except the folks that are minimizing their security risk by blanking out the plate number before posting a picture of their vehicle, but have their HAM license number in their signature and vacation plans posted on the interweb :rolleyes:).
 
Fixing this -- The matrix simply alerts car 54 that the vehicle belongs to Florida Man.
Be careful down there, Dave!

FYI - In California, my friend got a ticket for no tags on his car as the scanner took a picture of the front of his car that he had backed into the parking space. He had to waste his time by going to court to fight it (he won).
 
Dave said:
Good discussion.

So what about license plate scanning technology? Does that violate the 4th?

:coffee
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Yes. Traffic cameras are ripe for corruption. Assessment and collection is sub'd out to private companies... Several states have banned them. IMO, cops should pull you over for cause, not be on a fishing expedition
 
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Dave said:
Good discussion.

So what about license plate scanning technology? Does that violate the 4th?

:coffee
Click to expand...
In reality, driving in almost every state is deemed a “privilege” and not a right. If you want that privilege, you agree to certain things - have insurance, obey traffic laws and show your drivers license when asked by a LEO. That said, the LEO must have probable cause to stop you in most cases. The checkpoints used for drunk driver enforcement have been challenged but I think still exist in most states so there are exceptions.
 
Al Swope said:
Yes. Traffic cameras are ripe for corruption. Assessment and collected sub'd out to private companies... Several state have banned them. IMO, cops should pull you over for cause, not be on a fishing expedition
Click to expand...

Agree 100% on red light cameras but that’s not what I’m referencing. I’m talking about the license plate scanning technology in use in police cars.
 
This topic is ridiculous. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Break the law and you should probably avoid going out into public, or hitting the roadways... or, I don't know, maybe just stop breaking the law? I'm sure I have had my info checked hundreds of times in the last decade... I've not been stopped once, and I for one am happy to see actual dirtbags get put away. Don't confuse good ol' American freedom with freedom from responsibilities and the law.
 
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