LITE CYLINDER EMERGENCY RECALL- ALL MODELS

Wow, this go heated quickly....my bad, didn't mean to start a riot. I was just stating my feelings. And I completely understand Tango's and everyone else feelings as well. Mine opinion is based solely on my exp from work and stuff, but as I stated earlier, if I do blow myself up, I would expect nothing less than a good solid "I told you so" haha.

I just really cannot see a problem occurring when these things were tested to 441psi. As far as propane goes, the vapor pressure contained in the vessel increases with a function of temp (as do all fluids, gasses, etc). Here is the pressure vs temp plot (note this is logarithmic scale):

propane-vapor-pressure-diagram.png


Or Table form for easier reading:

propan4.jpg



So what does this mean? For the pressure to reach the 441psi, the vapor inside it would have to reach approximately 175 deg F..And the way I see it if that happens I got other problems. (That would also mean the built in pressure relief valve has malfunctioned as well to get that high)


Also, CROM does have a very good point. It is clear we are dealing with an unethical company, who got caught lying..SO, if they lied here, what else did they mess up, cut corners, or screw up on that did NOT get caught? hmm food for thought everyone..personally, I figure my tank has been through a lot, so if there was a manufacturing defect, it would have been found by now, but I may be wrong in this...it is a VERY good point that must be considered by EVERYONE. What is in the recall is what was FOUND, but there could be MUCH more that was not found.


Anyway, at the end of the day, if they refuse to refill it, I would completely understand and would not argue in the least bit with them..but for my own personal safety, I am not afraid to try. And its not about "sticking it to the man" or anything, i just really see no reason to worry. My tank has served me well for years..this letter will not make it fail tomorrow.

Ultimately as Mitch and others have stated, I think the fill stations will probably FORCE me to retire it if they refuse to fill it.

IMPORTANT: This is all MY PERSONAL opinion. PLEASE do not let it change your minds on your feelings. If you feel you should retire your tank, then PLEASE do. do not let what I say change that. I'm just being a nerd and digging into this, I guess partly for fun. Please understand, my JOB is a qual test engineer on High pressure hydraulic components, so to me, this is like a failure investigation..I get a kick out of exploring the ramifications and reasons for it (yes i am sick i know haha). I am not trying to convince others to use things they feel are dangerous.

P.S. TANGO!!!! Next time we hang out, I will leave this tank at home so you do not have to put me in the corner with the dunce hat and fear my rig is rolling time bomb....although, i bet keeping the cylinder in my rig would be a good deterrent for any "annoy-a-tron" planters...maybe have a warning sign "Full LiteCylinder on board, plant annoy-a-tron at own risk" muahahaha.
 
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bob91yj said:
I'd print out something from the 'net to show the difference Mitch. If you're looking for a good answer, go see the folks at the feed store on Woodside (name escapes me at the moment). (I always buy my propane there just because it's easy in/out and they are nice people, no idea how their price compares) Anyway, they always check cylinder dates before filling. I'd guess that they might be more up to date on what's going on than your average counter person at a 7-11 or similar.

I understand both sides of the keep it/don't keep it. I'm on the don't keep it side of the fence...then again, I don't own one...if I did, I can almost guarantee that I'd use it as long as I could. Sitting here typing that, I start thinking about the possibility of my grandkids being on a trip with us, and I begin to think that I'm getting softer and less defiant as I get older. Some more thinking, I just couldn't keep it anywhere near my grandkids. I'd kill whatever propane was left in it on the back yard grill or something similar and be done with it.

Caving in to the man...not hardly IMO. When I weigh the possible risk/reward, and the abuse we put our gear through, for example... 150* plus vehicle interiors, same for exterior body panels exposed to the sun (covering the interior mount/exterior mount alternatives), freezing temperatures, extreme vibration for extended periods of time, possible hard impacts (unsecured cooler sliding over and whacking it, banging it on a rock/tree root), not to mention that the internal pressure of the tank is constantly fluctuating due to fill levels, barometric pressure/temperature, etc...those tanks take some abuse, and the shells have to be constantly cycling with swell/shrink...no way is it worth being defiant and sticking it to the man. Twenty years ago, we may have been having a different conversation.

Well, I have a fence I need to go climb back on top of!:cool:

Oh, and my momma told me it's rude to take your toys and go home, I thought the idea behind this forum was to have intelligent conversation with folks that may have a different opinion, regardless of the topic.
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I agree with everything you said, Bob.. The sudden removal of piece of mind would make me immediately go out and replace the tank. I probably wouldn't go through the expense of proper disposal without reimbursement, but I'd drill some holes in it and throw it away.

As for your last statement; Anyone is free to remove themselves from the conversation, everyone's entitled to their opinions, even the mods and admins! But what you won't see is the site taking people's toys and sending them home*.

*Disclaimer: Providing folks are abiding by the site's rules, which are very clear and upfront. And Spammers! Spammers don't deserve toys to begin with!
 
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I'm feeling a "Can you explode a propane tank with a gun" mythbusters remake coming on here...who's in for a little scientific experimenting out in BLM land? :rifle:50

For the advancement of all man kind of course?
 
barlowrs said:
if I do blow myself up, I would expect nothing less than a good solid "I told you so" haha.

I just really cannot see a problem occurring when these things were tested to 441psi. As far as propane goes, the vapor pressure contained in the vessel increases with a function of temp (as do all fluids, gasses, etc). Here is the pressure vs temp plot (note this is logarithmic scale):
Click to expand...
On these two points....

First, you blow yourself up, and I'll kill you, plain as that.

Second, what if it isn't you that gets blown up, but someone else, I know you, and you'll do what it takes to make sure that doesn't happen.

Lastly, I think the point of the order from the DOJ is that they weren't actually testing the units to the required PSI, and falsified test documents. So your perfectly sound logic only works if they were performing to the numbers they say they were, but it would seem they were not.

Just go out and by a Ragasgo.
 
I don't think the discussion is heated at all barlowrs nor did you start a riot; you made a well-thought out discussion on the facts as you know them.

You make a compelling argument with all your dazzling graphs and tables and what-not. You had me at kilo-boobs and jiga-watts... thank God you're on our side. Plus, I'm a little smarter on the subject from your discussion. It's nice to know there are some tough-hided engineers out there who can take a little internet roughing-up.

Like bob99yj said, in a different time I'd likely go tell them to pound sand too, but in today's litigious society the risk is much higher for prosecution, therefore I'd just as soon write off the $90.00 I spent for 3 years of LiteCylinder service. Also, the potential for doing unintentional harm to others is not a burden I'd want to carry, even if I was inconvenienced by not being able to use my LiteCylinder by the decree of an agency charged with protecting the public from a potentially harmful device, but then again I'm not a Libertarian so offended that a government agency would actually do their job either.

I'm just your run of the mill condescending hero who carries out lawful and reasonable orders from intrusive government agencies. And if by chance we are camping together and you have a LiteCylinder, know that when the National Illegal Cylinder Police come for you it was probably not me who made the call but Mitch. You saw how quickly he threw his wife under the bus as a person of interest in another investigation... that's just flippin' cold, man.
 
How is saying "I wouldn't put it past her" throwing her under the bus??? You people don't know her like I do.. and given the opportunity, she would prank you in a heartbeat.

Trust me, had she known about annoy-a-trons before the drive home from OVX, she WOULD have been the one behind it. :D
 
Really Mitch... just how long have you known this woman who calls herself "Apryl?"

Come to think of it isn't "Lyrpa" an Arabic name?

Plus she was always taking pictures like she was gathering information...
 
Blame Dave for the pics, she's the staff photographer.

I've known her for almost 20 years. And she gets better every year!
 
Mitch said:
How is saying "I wouldn't put it past her" throwing her under the bus??? You people don't know her like I do.. and given the opportunity, she would prank you in a heartbeat.

Trust me, had she known about annoy-a-trons before the drive home from OVX, she WOULD have been the one behind it. :D
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...and now you are backing the bus up over her with even more rhetoric! I dare say that I can't see dear sweet precious Apryl doing any dastardly deeds of her own free will!
 
She looked guilty every time I ran into her in camp... reeked of shenanigans if you ask me.
 
^^^^if so, I contend she was overwhelmed by propane fumes!:wow

<had to stay on topic>

<psssst...never blame the women for anything when you are out camping. If we piss them off they'll quit coming out on our trips, turning the event into a sausage fest...I was in the Navy back in the day, I've seen enough ugly in one place to last a life time. It's nice to wake up and see a pretty face and a smile in the next camp, rather than another ugly bastich with a two day beard and a scowl! In my house I can be happy or I can be right...I'm a happy guy!>
 
Wisdom...thy name is Bob.

To get back on topic; I was considering one of these tanks but what with the present situation what good alternatives are available?
 
Haggis said:
Wisdom...thy name is Bob.

To get back on topic; I was considering one of these tanks but what with the present situation what good alternatives are available?
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Steel or Aluminum. The Ragasgo tank, made overseas and certified, is another composite but I know companies that refuse to fill them anyway like Airgas.

To get back off topic: Gee Mitch, now you're blaming Dave for Apryl's AQ intelligence gathering? Although I do recall a member admitting in an earlier post that he's a "geek" and that the device was procured from a company known to do business as "ThinkGeek." That's pretty much an admission of guilt right there.

Coincidence? Perhaps or maybe this is a well dispersed team of conspirators...
 
Subject: PHMSA SAFETY ALERT
Date: Jun 7, 2013 4:42 PM


On May 24, 2013 The Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration (PHMSA) mandated a recall of cylinders manufactured by Lite Cylinder Company. These cylinders may leak flammable gas or suddenly rupture.

PHMSA has been notified by The Lite Cylinder Company it is no longer in business and the company’s facility is now closed and unable to receive cylinders returned per the Recall Order.

Accordingly, we are providing the attached flyer for additional information. We are also posting updates on PHMSA's Lite Cylinder Information page and on Twitter.

If you have any questions, contact PHMSA Hazardous Materials Information Center on 1-800-467-4922.

If you are experiencing difficulty using the hyperlinks in the body of this e-mail, please use the hyperlinks provided below:

Recall Order: http://www.phmsa.dot.gov/staticfile...ecall_Order_The_Lite_Cylinder_Company_Inc.pdf
PHMSA’s Lite Cylinder Information page: http://www.phmsa.dot.gov/portal/sit...7b310VgnVCM1000001ecb7898RCRD&vgnextfmt=print
Twitter: https://twitter.com/PHMSA_DOT
Please do not reply to this message. It has been sent from an automated system.
 

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  • Lite Cyl Recall flyer FINAL (1).pdf
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Guess Ill have to find some time to take it somewhere safe and see what a .50 hollow point round does to one when its full... Great read!!
 
The details about how Lite were playing games with quality control, testing, certification, and regulation are scary. Take a read through the original order, especially for the failure rates of different sized cylinders.

Folks who have these are gonna be outta luck it seems. The company is out of business and insolvent. The order notes the cylinders are not to be refilled by anyone -- and that seems reasonable if you read the background. Pressure vessels for flammable gasses isn't the place to take well-documented risks.
 
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