Private land... and gates

F250inTX

F250inTX

Adventurist
Searched but found nothing... not sure what to even search. I just returned from a trip that took me to states that I have never traveled and to a couple I have but never alone.

I had some pretty good maps with me but... I'd be traveling on what was listed as a county road or even a national Forest or Park road... come to a gate marked PRIVATE or even NO TRESPASSING.

If not far along I turned around. If no other option I continued and usually just came to a gate leaving the property? Luckily no issues this trip. I just feel like a criminal when I open a gate and continue (close gate too). Takes fun out of the trip until back on known public land.

What is the appropriate way to proceed? I know some guys I ride with do it all the time. I feel OK doing it with others but not alone :( THOUGHTS????
 
If it is a public road on a map, I'd do the open/close thing as you are doing.

Most of my gate experience is in Baja where public "roads" cross private land. It is understood that you open/close gates. It is some what odd to drive right by a hacienda after going through a gate and the owners staring you down as you drive by.
 
Here abouts there are pockets of private land within the confines of State and Federal lands. Though surrounded by public land they are still private and entering into those lands is trespassing. I wouldn't want people intruding on my land just because it's convenient or because they want too so so I don't enter into them myself. I would recommend others to do the same as a persons private property rights trump your personal desires.
 
Haggis, that is how I feel too and why I asked. Just does the owner maintain the road up to his property? What about through his property? Seems like the GIS Department of the local County should flag this as private and not as county? Just wondering what those of you in these areas do? I think here in Texas I will continue not to pass unless I see someone and get permission. Seems like if they say Private No Trespass... they might just mean it?
 
In TX, if it is marked County Rd, you should be OK. I was told that county roads do cross private land, I assume with an easement, and experienced it a couple weeks ago. No issues. Closed gates and no trespassing signs, I would not pass.

I was on a county road, signed on the end that I started, passed through a fence with pillars. As I passed an old stone house, it had a no trespassing sign on it, and a barn later, the same. Why would they sign a building if you (in theory) weren't supposed to be there. At the other end, I passed through another fence with pillars, and on the other side was a Stop sign, on to a highway. The county wouldn't normally put a stop sign on the end of someone's driveway. Named roads, I am not sure.

If you are approached, just explain that you understood that you are on a county road, and show them your map.

Texas is very different from most western states, as most of the land is private. Also be aware that purple paint on corner and fence posts is the same as a no trespassing sign. This is a standard that has been adopted nationwide.
 
I can corroborate @taugust post that many states out West with purple paint markings on fence posts/gates denote areas that indicate no trespass. In Montana and Wyoming I can confirm it was purple but I can't say I've seen it universally applied in states like Colorado, Arizona, and Utah. Other experiences may vary and I'd like to see those posted here...
 
I have also noticed... as in Montana they hang a tire on the fence painted in white letters NO TRESPASS. I was raised to obey the rules... that's why I've posted and asked for input.
 
We have a problem in my area with people gating public roads. While they may own the land on either side of the road, the road itself is still a public right of way.

I actually just had such an issue a few weeks ago exploring a local state forest. A random guy stopped my buddy and I and claimed we were trespassing. We were on a well marked and established road leading into a section of the state forest. There was even a PA FS gate, a "welcome to _____ state forest" sign, and markers indicating it was the correct fire road we were looking for. He rambled on about how it was his land, we were trespassing, how there were restrictions on the stream crossing, etc, etc, etc. We were polite, respectful, explained according to our maps and the signage it's a forest road with no private restrictions. We also explain how we had run into some PA FS workers and they said nothing to us about any restrictions, nor were any posted at the entrance to the road. Eventually he gave up and claimed he was going to talk to the PA FS workers up on the mountain.

My personally philosophy, and this may not sit well with everyone, is if the road is listed on maps as a public road then I am entitled to travel it. If there are signs posted saying "private property" and/or "no trespassing I acknowledge that applies to the land on either side of the road and will respect the signage accordingly and stay on the road. If there is an unlocked gate I will open/close it accordingly. If it's a locked gate I will usually mark the location and contact local law enforcement or ranger station to enquire to the legality of the gate and if it is legal recommend they update maps accordingly. In the event I am encountered or confronted by someone my usually response is, "According to my maps this is a public road." I always do my best to be non-confrontational and try to deescalate the situation. A lot of times once I explain who I am and what I'm doing, and that I'm just "passing through" they let me on my way. In rare instances I'll even say, "If you would like to charge me with trespassing you can call a Ranger or State Police Officer and I will wait till they get here." It's amazing how quickly people clam up and change their tune in that situation.

Anyway, long story short, it pays to do research ahead of time. Examine maps - multiple maps. If it shows up as a public road on multiple maps then it's more than likely a public right of way even if the land on either side of it is private. In such a case the land owner has no right to gate the public right away and in/around/near state forests, parks, and game lands, it is extremely illegal because those are access routes for fire fighters (I have a story about that too, but I'll save it for another time). There is also a difference between a sign that says "private property" and a sign that says "private road." There are roads that show up on maps but are signed and marked "private road." Those I always respect, but usually they are dead-end roads anyway. More often than naught i've found through roads in/around/near public land are going to still be a public right of way. I also do my best to stop in at ranger stations when traveling to ask them if there are any known such cases on a road I plan to travel. Never hurts to ask ahead of time.
 
taugust said:
Texas is very different from most western states, as most of the land is private. Also be aware that purple paint on corner and fence posts is the same as a no trespassing sign. This is a standard that has been adopted nationwide.
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Our group here probably knows that but it is surprising how many others don't.
 
TangoBlue said:
I can corroborate @taugust post that many states out West with purple paint markings on fence posts/gates denote areas that indicate no trespass. In Montana and Wyoming I can confirm it was purple but I can't say I've seen it universally applied in states like Colorado, Arizona, and Utah. Other experiences may vary and I'd like to see those posted here...
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Same in NC. Purple is a no go zone. We do not have much trouble with people coming in on our road, however.... Early on out here we did... we had hunters who thought they had a right to hunt our land because a dog had chased a raccoon on it... we had a relative of a former landowner who though he had right to hunt our land since he had that access before... remarkably they decided to leave under the actions of Ann and myself... just sayin... and most alarmingly we had the US Geology Service come onto our land and say to my face that "They had the right to because we did not lock our gate". Each of these situations led to a confrontation that I am not happy about, I do not want to have, but I am willing to have. Stay off other people's land... stay off MY land unless you are expressly invited... Dang it that is why we moved out here and invested our personal resources in our land... we don't want you here...
That is, unless Ann says it is OK :)
 
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In some areas of the west there are problems with people gating and closing access on roads that should be open for public use, even if they are on private land. One aspect of that is if the road is a traditional access to public land and there is no other way to access that public land. It cant be gated or closed in that case.

Ive seen signs indicating the land was private for the next whatever distance and to please stay on the road and respect the landowner.

Have also seen gates on National Forest that had grazing leases, the gates weren't always closed, but were at certain times if livestock was present. Signs, and custom, indicate to leave the gates as you found them, either open or closed.

Passengers also are generally expected to open and close gates. You knew you had a prospective good woman if on the first time out in the hills she got out and got the gates without you saying anything. :)

Never heard of the purple paint thing before. White or yellow painted posts indicate private or public land, I cant recall which is which though. Most places I hunt or roam around I know pretty well whats what, and there isn't much private land.
 
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I've never heard of the purple paint thing either, but I do remember seeing it in the past. It seems like a pretty dumb idea actually, especially considering Home Depot and Lowes both use purple paint to mark their clearance lumber. The natural assumption is whoever stuck the post in the ground bought the cheapest wood they could, not that the area is private. Frankly, if you're too cheap to post a 30-cent sign... :rolleyes:

Something worth noting regarding confrontations with hunters and other travelers: in many states' undeveloped areas (Arizona included), if it's not posted every X feet or fenced off, it's fair game for hunting/crossing...private or not. It's the visitor's responsibility to know if this is the case of course, but I could understand their confusion. That said, I feel the same way about trespassers, and have forcibly removed them more than once (our land is well marked, fenced, and unmistakably private).
 
I googled purple paint as private property markings. Its fairly recent, but the law in a number of states. Part of the reasoning for purple was it wasn't used in Forestry work, and it was seeable by many that are co,lor blind, and it stands out in the woods.

Part of the search results showed some states allowed a bright orange painted fence post to do as a private property/no trespass notice. They had to be placed about every 600' along the perimeter I believe, and 18" of metal fence post had to be painted.
 
Malamute said:
I googled purple paint as private property markings. Its fairly recent, but the law in a number of states. Part of the reasoning for purple was it wasn't used in Forestry work, and it was seeable by many that are co,lor blind, and it stands out in the woods.
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How recent? I learned it as a kid, although I'm not *that* old...I think.

In much of Texas the purple paint is sort of a secondary no trespassing notice as a barbed wire fence is usually there.

As for signs vs. paint, when a rancher has over 100 miles of fence line purple paint on the cedar posts every so often is a lot cheaper than signs that can fall off. There are over 130,000,000 acres of ranch land in Texas with the average ranch size of around 800 acres or so. I for one would not like to be the guy in charge of fence maintenance much less anything else for that large of a property. Then there's the King Ranch that is nearly 1,300 square miles in size. I have no idea if they use purple paint or just rifles for their trespassing problems. ;)
 
WUZombies said:
How recent? I learned it as a kid, although I'm not *that* old...I think.

In much of Texas the purple paint is sort of a secondary no trespassing notice as a barbed wire fence is usually there.
;)
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It looks like Arkansas passed their law allowing purple painted fence posts to be accepted as no trespassing in 87, Texas in 97, Illinois in 2011, not sure of other states, those are the ones I saw when I googled it. It isn't universal across the country by any means. Some states like orange for that purpose.

http://www.westernjournalism.com/pu...-will-definitely-want-to-know-what-they-mean/

As I mentioned before, its the first time ive ever heard of it. All I recall was that white or yellow fence posts indicted whether land behind them was private or public in Wy, but I cant recall whats what. It came up on another forum a couple years ago. It didn't necessarily say no trespass, just if it was private or public land as far as hunting.
 
WUZombies said:
As for signs vs. paint, when a rancher has over 100 miles of fence line purple paint on the cedar posts every so often is a lot cheaper than signs that can fall off. There are over 130,000,000 acres of ranch land in Texas with the average ranch size of around 800 acres or so. I for one would not like to be the guy in charge of fence maintenance much less anything else for that large of a property. Then there's the King Ranch that is nearly 1,300 square miles in size. I have no idea if they use purple paint or just rifles for their trespassing problems. ;)
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True, though it should only be necessary at gates/openings. I can't think of a single legitimate trail or road I've been on that required hopping over or cutting a fence. :)
 
Chazz Layne said:
True, though it should only be necessary at gates/openings. I can't think of a single legitimate trail or road I've been on that required hopping over or cutting a fence. :)
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In the west Ive crossed fences a number of times, but from maps knew I was on public ground. Areas are divided up for grazing leases, not to keep people out. Roads aren't fenced across unless with a gate or cattle guard.
 
I think Tim nailed this one with his correct terminology of "easement". While the road goes through private land, they don't own the road. I dealt with easement stuff at the school for which I did fundraising when developing a new campus plan on land that was purchased with no true access point. An easement had to be purchased.
 
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