10# Powertank

Stuart

Stuart

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So I bought a 10# Powertank today off Craigslist. I think I got a good deal on it. I need to get it hydro tested and filled. Have not decided whether it will be mounted in the open bed or find a home in the limited space of the double cab.

I had a thought of mounting it in the middle of the back wall of the truck bed, nearest to the cab. This would make it harder to see and limit access by those not approved to touch my stuff. Wondering if it was advisable to put a 'T' from the regulator and run lines to the sides of the bed to be able to easily connect hose for each side. Can I run a stainless line from the PT regulator to the 'T' and the two branches that will go to the sides? Will the extra quick connects be prone to freezing/clogging?

Just a bunch of random thoughts and questions spilling out.
 
That's where I have mine mounted.



Although I use my compressor now, I didn't have any problem reaching all 4 tires from that spot and it remains easy to dismount from the rack to carry it to other locations. It's now been re-purposed to supply high pressure gas to air tools. I'd advise against any additional plumbing as maintaining an intact seal with a distribution manifold or 'T' would be a challenge in an offroad vehicle. My opinion is that modifications need to be stupid-simple to avoid failure in the field or facilitate easy repair or maintenance. The acronym KISS applies...
 
TangoBlue said:
That's where I have mine mounted.

Although I use my compressor now, I didn't have any problem reaching all 4 tires from that spot and it remains easy to dismount from the rack to carry it to other locations. It's now been re-purposed to supply high pressure gas to air tools. I'd advise against any additional plumbing as maintaining an intact seal with a distribution manifold or 'T' would be a challenge in an offroad vehicle. My opinion is that modifications need to be stupid-simple to avoid failure in the field or facilitate easy repair or maintenance. The acronym KISS applies...
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This ^

No need to put extra plumbing in. I leave my tank in place in the bed and my hose reaches all four tires.
 
TangoBlue said:
I'd advise against any additional plumbing as maintaining an intact seal with a distribution manifold or 'T' would be a challenge in an offroad vehicle. My opinion is that modifications need to be stupid-simple to avoid failure in the field or facilitate easy repair or maintenance. The acronym KISS applies...
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Good points. Security was my consideration for going with a center mount rather than a driver side like your pic shows. In the center makes attaching the hose less easy, hence the idea of extra plumbing. Since I have abandoned the superfluous plumbing idea and will be mounting the tank on the passenger side of the bed, how are you guys locking the tank in place? Is there a lockable bracket on the market? Cable lock through the handle?
 
You should be closing the shutoff valve when not in use anyway, so you'll want to be able to access it without too much trouble. Don't get into the bad habit of always leaving it open, or you'll find yourself out of CO2 when you need it... Ask me how I know. :headbang There are a number of good lockable brackets on the market and I would recommend sticking with them. Strapping a CO2 cylinder in place was always a pain before I got a mount. No matter how hard I tried to keep it in place, it would still find a way to get free on the trail. This is the bracket I currently use:

http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/CO2-Mount-p-296.html

You can get the same mount from a number of different sources, so shop around a bit. The Powertank mounts are really nice, but really pricey.
 
There are plumbing connectors/systems that will take much more abuse than we are likely to dish out to them. From the bottle to such a system absolutely needs to be a flex hose of some sort. Since the current trend in the thread is away from the idea I'll not delve into the options, just know that there are options.

BTW, with any high pressure tank (except acetylene) you should either have the valve fully opened or fully closed. Never stop somewhere in the middle unless it specifically is an Acetylene tank. The valve packing is not up to long term pressure exposure and it will leak. Fully opening the valve seats and seals the stem's packing from pressure just like fully closed does.
 
ntsqd said:
There are plumbing connectors/systems that will take much more abuse than we are likely to dish out to them. From the bottle to such a system absolutely needs to be a flex hose of some sort. Since the current trend in the thread is away from the idea I'll not delve into the options, just know that there are options.
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I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts. There is no one right way.

My thinking was to keep complexity low, easy maintenance, and to increase availability/reliability. Of course my frame of reference is shaped by my Tacoma, a small platform in which standard fittings and accessories can reach all 4 corners easily.

Perhaps Stuart is driving a MAN 8x8 and needs something else to support his goals... IDK; what do you drive Stuart?
 
ntsqd said:
BTW, with any high pressure tank (except acetylene) you should either have the valve fully opened or fully closed. Never stop somewhere in the middle unless it specifically is an Acetylene tank. The valve packing is not up to long term pressure exposure and it will leak. Fully opening the valve seats and seals the stem's packing from pressure just like fully closed does.
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Good to know. I have a powertank, too; and I have been intentionally not opening the valve all the way. I thought I was doing a good thing!


There are plumbing connectors/systems that will take much more abuse than we are likely to dish out to them. From the bottle to such a system absolutely needs to be a flex hose of some sort. Since the current trend in the thread is away from the idea I'll not delve into the options, just know that there are options.
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I'd be interested in hearing this, too. I have an air chuck on my bumper, but I never found a suitable (leak-free) way to plumb it. :popcorn

Danny
 
DBlosch said:
I'd be interested in hearing this, too. I have an air chuck on my bumper, but I never found a suitable (leak-free) way to plumb it. Danny
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Really? I run hydraulic line from the compressor to the Quick Connect Coupler mounted on my bumper. Couple hose clamps... no leaks.
 
TangoBlue said:
I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts. There is no one right way.
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I too would be interested in reading about those options. In playing with the set up I have realized that the need for a dual air port system is indeed over kill for my needs.
 
TangoBlue said:
...what do you drive Stuart?
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I drive a 2004 Tacoma Double Cab. The planned placement was for the PT to be in the center of the truck on the outside, so the front end of the bed. I have a bed rack with a fuel can rack on the drivers side (to make siphoning into the trucks tank easy), and a fold down counter top on the passenger side to work with the awning. These two things make reaching the middle nigh on impossible, hence the port idea. The length of the coiled hose and short distance it has to stretch, has lead me to abandon the complex fitting idea. I should have no problems reaching all four tires with the PT mounted in the front right portion of the bed. And on further contemplation, I realized that putting the PT where it was hard to reach, meant that it would be less likely I could remove the tank and help someone else fill their tires. I don't need to be THAT douchey. Having not paid to fill my system with CO2 yet, I reserve the right to change my mind though.
 
Dropped of the PT at the fire extinguisher shop today to be hydro-tested, $20, and filled, $30. Still have not decided on the mounting bracket yet. More internet shopping.:)
 
Stuart said:
Still have not decided on the mounting bracket yet. More internet shopping.:)
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Hello Stuart,

I have a Black Aluminum PowerTank bracket sitting in my garage. It was removed from my Pinzgauer before I sold it. Here is a link to it.

http://www.powertank.com/products/sfID1/17/productID/283

Price $50

I use the same one in the Jeep. Works well and is lockable.

On second thought -- let me pull it out tomorrow and make sure it is in great condition. I may have needed to drill a couple of extra holes to mount it. I'll let you know.

Thanks

Justin
 
Thanks Justin. That type wass one of the front runners. Great price. Might have a reason to head South this week.
 
At the top of the heap is metal tubing and Swage-lok fittings for the manifold. Still need some sort of flex line between the tank and the manifold to ease R&Ring of the tank. Swage-lok has a complete solution. I would look into the extreme cold that the liquid to gas phase change of CO2 and how it might affect the flex line's material. Don't expect it to be a problem with Swage-lok components, but it should be looked at. Used with appropriate tubing Swage-Lok fittings are good for direct bottle pressure in 1/4" (the size that I'm most familiar with), which is roughly 2500 psi. Swage-Lok fittings are not inexpensive, particularly in 316 SST, but both of the power plants that I've worked at or toured use them exclusively for their remote monitoring and control systems (so figure that these fittings are used in "Mission Critical" ~750 MegaWatt generation control systems). Metal tubing will need coils, Z's, etc. bent into it where it transitions from frame to body or vice-versa and anywhere else where there may be some relative motion between anchoring points. You're fooling yourself if you think that one of those auto parts store 3 in 1 tubing benders will bend .035" wall 3/8" 316 SST tubing. So factor in a Rigid or similar single size tube bender into the project cost. These are like a small version of a typical roll cage tubing bender and only work for one specific tube size. Biggest advantage of Swage-Lok fittings is that they are flareless, no tube flaring required. Cut tube to length, insert tube into fitting, tighten fitting nut 6 wrench flats, and the connection is good to bottle pressure.

Next step down would be (in my mind anyway) JIC/AN fittings. Max pressure would depend on the tube used, but bottle pressure may not be possible with just any tube. The fittings are good for a minimum of 3000 psi from 1/2" down. These fittings will require single flares, 37° flares to be precise. 45° flare tools are not the way to try to make up a system using these fittings, you'll need to buy the correct flaring tool. The usual assembly practices & cautions mentioned above for building systems with metal tubing need to be followed.

Next option would be to use Push-Loc (sometimes called "Barb-tite") hose ends with JIC adapter fittings and Aeroquip FC332 hose. This method will not withstand bottle pressure, but is good for ~150 psi without worry. These hose ends simply push into the hose. That is it. They DO NOT want or need a hose clamp. A hose clamp is actually detrimental to the hose end/hose assembly as it will cause the hose end to cut thru the hose's liner and the assembly will leak. I am using this plumbing method on my FJ-60's engine swap fuel plumbing.

Last option, also low pressure, is to use Push>Connect fittings and poly tubing. Note that mcmaster.com calls these fittings "Instant fittings". They are pressure limited by the tubing used. Again, with CO2 there needs to be an awareness of the super cold that it's phase change from liquid to gas produces and how that might affect the components used to plumb a system conveying it. This is what I used to plumb the OBA system that was on my old Suburban. I used a coil of 3/8" copper tube right off the York to cool down the discharge air before putting into a poly tubing. And I'm thinking of using this method of plumbing for my DD's next fuel system.
 
Thanks for the info. Sounds like the pressures are a hurdle. My smaller truck size means I don't have a problem to solve.
 
Well my new to me PT passed the hydro test and is GTG for another 5 years. It cost $30 to fill the tank at a fire extinguisher shop in my town. Two miles away and no tank exchange obviously. My question now for you experts: is $30 a fair price to fill a 10 lb. tank in your experience? The place is convenient and I like supporting businesses in my town. I'm just wondering if they are competitive?
 
Stuart said:
Well my new to me PT passed the hydro test and is GTG for another 5 years. It cost $30 to fill the tank at a fire extinguisher shop in my town. Two miles away and no tank exchange obviously. My question now for you experts: is $30 a fair price to fill a 10 lb. tank in your experience? The place is convenient and I like supporting businesses in my town. I'm just wondering if they are competitive?
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That's about right for CA.
 
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