Winch Line Length

Yeah darn electric winches have a stupid short duty cycle! The hydraulic on my truck has a 100% duty cycle. The only drawback to a hydraulic winch is that the truck has to be running, but an electric winch will not run long without the engine running either.
 
verdesard0g said:
Yeah darn electric winches have a stupid short duty cycle! The hydraulic on my truck has a 100% duty cycle. The only drawback to a hydraulic winch is that the truck has to be running, but an electric winch will not run long without the engine running either.
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Don't hydraulic winches build heat? I know it can be discharged through an in-line fluid cooler, but I'm sure there is still a recommended cool down period after a hard pull.
 
Not enough to be problem rated at 100% duty cycle, fluid goes through power steering cooler anyway. Also a hydraulic can run rope out indefinitely while an electric powering out overheats the brake and will cause problems like a melted drive and free spooling......
 
can some one shed some light on the pro's & con's to soft shackles vs. screw pin shackles? I only carry screw pin shackles.
 
ArkansasDon said:
can some one shed some light on the pro's & con's to soft shackles vs. screw pin shackles? I only carry screw pin shackles.
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I think the biggest PRO is when you use one to connect 2 straps/ropes. If there is a failure, a soft shackle flying through the air is much less dangerous than a steel shackle on the same trajectory.
 
I never thought of that Scott. I worry with screw pin shackle\shackles. Is there a manufacture of soft shackles better than others?
 
ArkansasDon said:
I never thought of that Scott. I worry with screw pin shackle\shackles. Is there a manufacture of soft shackles better than others?
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I think the big name companies products are all quite similar. The only experience I personally have is with Bubba Ropes - I have 2 of theirs.
 
Soft shackle pros are less mass, floats if dropped in water muck or snow, can be attached to odd locations such as rock sliders roll cages etc. We have used them with a Hi Lift to replace the Lift Mate wheel lift as long as up use a chaff guard which can be an old strap wrapped around the sharp surface.

Cons, quality brands rated label and serialized are expensive, are susceptible to cut or chaff damage on a sharp edge not all recovery equipment is compatible with soft shackles due to the sharp edges like Master Pull and ARB pulley block, older Pull Pals, most receiver hitch recovery points are not compatible. And with any Dynema, Spectra, or Plasma will start to melt at around 180 degrees if drug across a surface.
 
Dave said:
I agree. Check out competition winches used at events like KOH, short drums and short lines for quick use and maximum power.
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Seeing Dave post this is almost overwhelming for me, but I couldn't agree more. I will qualify that though. Recovery in the desert/rocks is a COMPLETELY different game than recovery in mud.

I've worked course recovery at rock crawling events back in the day...no formal training, some of the best mentor's over the years, school of hard knocks... a little geometry, and physics may have stuck in my melon during my educational years to be helpful.

Anyway, rock/desert recoveries tend to be pure gravity/mechanical advantage situations...with mud you have to add in the "suction" factor...I have next to no experience with mud recoveries.

Two almost mud experiences...

One is a little embarrassing to admit to, NOT a Tread Lightly moment at all...a group of us tried crossing what turned out to be a "sand river" during a particularly wet year at Death Valley. The first couple of vehicles went axle deep immediately/without warning, recovery ultimately involved those of us that could to wheel spin through the slop to the other side, full winch line pulls with winch vehicles anchored to get the stuck vehicles out (pulling them out/backing out was not an option)... I saw two Harbor Freight winches go up in puffs of smoke that day. I'm fairly certain that there was enough follow on rain that weekend to mend our tire tracks...at least I hope so. Ruts/tracks can be there for a lot of years once they dry out the first time.:(

A buddy got his 2500 HD stuck below the tide line, with the tide coming in, down in Baja (vehicles legal on the beach). He blew a front CV joint trying to get it out. I had my '06 LJ Rubicon with a Warn 9500 winch at the time, I went full spool to try to pull him out (no anchor point) all that did was drag my Jeep...tide coming in, exhaust starting to burble under water from the truck... another buddy pulled his F-150 up in front of me. His truck was lifted with high clearance pre-runner style bumpers, we went left front tire to left front tire to anchor me from the front (I cringed, wasn't sure how great that idea was, no room or anchor point behind me, we did what the situation called for) it was a full spool, down to the last three wraps on the drum, aired down tires on the truck, and some wheel spin (the tide fixed the tire tracks in minutes) to get the truck out. I'm guessing the truck weighed 7200-7500 pounds (Dmax isn't a light truck, loaded for a week in Baja didn't help). I found new respect for the mud guys after that. My old rule was "5 miles out of my way to avoid mud", I've jumped that to 10 miles in my older age!
 

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Scott B. said:
I think the biggest PRO is when you use one to connect 2 straps/ropes. If there is a failure, a soft shackle flying through the air is much less dangerous than a steel shackle on the same trajectory.
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Why would you ever choose to use a shackle rather than just looping the straps? (serious question)
 
bob91yj said:
Why would you ever choose to use a shackle rather than just looping the straps? (serious question)
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This, never connect straps with a shackle.

ETA- I leave my line the way Warn sent it, at 95' because that way I know it's there. I carry a basic recovery bag in the back and can easily set up a double line if needed but I've got a lot of extra gear including a 90' extension I can carry if I think there's a chance I may need it. I usually travel alone so I err on the side of caution and try to avoid getting stuck in the first place; I don't mind turning around if I think it's prudent.

I don't know if they still do it, but the 8274 used to be the go to winch for the Aussie and Brit off-road competitions and they'd have dual motors mounted on them.
 
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bob91yj said:
Why would you ever choose to use a shackle rather than just looping the straps? (serious question)
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I was using that as an example.

To answer your question, way back when, I was taught to use a shackle to connect straps, rather than loop them together. No one could explain why, and it seemed to me to be preferred to loop them.

Robert said:
This, never connect straps with a shackle.
...
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I wouldn't say "never", just "you don't need to". It's not wrong to connect straps with a shackle, just unnecessary.
 
They teach it in rigging and slinging class for moving loads but as you said, it's unnecessary for off-roading. In materials handling you don't (shouldn't anyways) have people in the line of fire if something gives, when connecting straps you have at least two people in line. I've seen a shackle let go offshore (Chinesium) and I've seen a chain break on shore (guy was using a logging chain to pull a stump and it broke). I'm not saying I've never done it, as you said, it was common practice in the past, but I wouldn't these days. Line dampeners should definitely be used if you are going to do it though (as with any stored energy system).
 
Scott B. said:
I wouldn't say "never", just "you don't need to". It's not wrong to connect straps with a shackle, just unnecessary.
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Agreed.

That said, the less pieces of rigging that you can use in any given layout the better. I've seen some crazy stuff cobbled together because people feel like "it's in the bag so I have to attach it all together".

Use only what you need and keep it simple as possible.
 
Dave said:
Agreed.

That said, the less pieces of rigging that you can use in any given layout the better. I've seen some crazy stuff cobbled together because people feel like "it's in the bag so I have to attach it all together".

Use only what you need and keep it simple as possible.
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Certainly. Fewer points of failure, too.
 
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