Winch Line Length

Scott B.

Scott B.

Adventurist
At ARV this year, I spent some time talking with Mike from OEX. One thing he asked was, how long was my winch line? I responded 100 feet - how the winch came from Warn.

He told me that they like to cut the line down to 70 feet, and use the 30 foot piece as a winch extension. Less line on the drum means more pulling power. A shorter line means you have to pull it out less to get to the pulling power.

To me, this sounds like a good, although unconventional, idea. I have mentioned it to a couple friends of mine (non-AAV folks) and they don't think it is a good idea. (I chalk that up to their limited world views.)

What do you folks think?

I ask here, knowing that most of you have expanded world views (like me ;))
 
I'm for it.

If you have to do a double line pull with a 100' winch line you have 50' reach.

A double line pull with a 70' winch line and 30' extension gets you a 65' reach. The 35' loop from the 70' winch line through the block plus 30' from the block to the anchor.
 
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The kit that Safe-Xtract sells has a 60' winch line and a 60' extension. This gives a 90' reach in a double line pull.

DLPgfx-2Bn-1024x320.jpg
 
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I read a article on this topic that all winches were rated on the 1st wrap of the drum were the pulling power is the greatest, that shorter line is best & winch line extensions were the ideal, less stress to the winch, closer to the drum more pulling power.
I run 75ft of 7\16" Master Pull Classic
48418555_1972982452750619_3051188339521617920_o.jpg
 
Each layer of wire/rope around the drum increases the effective diameter of the drum at the point the wire/rope is being pulled in. As the diameter of the drum changes, so does the effective gear ratio. A larger diameter has a lower gear ratio, hence less pulling power.
 
Greg said:
I'm for it.

If you have to do a double line pull with a 100' winch line you have 50' reach.

A double line pull with a 70' winch line and 30' extension gets you a 65' reach. The 35' loop from the 70' winch line through the block plus 30' from the block to the anchor.
Click to expand...

I like your math!

I never thought about a setup this way, but it makes a lot of sense. Add this idea to the additional pulling power, and there is no reason not to shorten the winch line.
 
ArkansasDon said:
I read a article on this topic that all winches were rated on the 1st wrap of the drum were the pulling power is the greatest, that shorter line is best & winch line extensions were the ideal, less stress to the winch, closer to the drum more pulling power.
I run 75ft of 7\16" Master Pull Classic
View attachment 48553
Click to expand...

The Superwinch manual for my TS9500 provides a chart*. It's just below 60% pulling capacity on the 4th layer.
Screenshot_20191207-011006.png

* The chart is not organized that well. If you miss the double vertical lines you may accidentally associate rope layers and pull strength with load, speed, and current.
 
Scott B. said:
I like your math!

I never thought about a setup this way, but it makes a lot of sense. Add this idea to the additional pulling power, and there is no reason not to shorten the winch line.
Click to expand...
I can't take credit for the math. It's from Chris Cole's demo from the previous years ARV.
 
That all makes sense, but I have buried a spare tire in the shade of a tree that could have served as an anchor. I was soooooo close. It scarred me.

I want all the line I can get. I like my 8274 with 150', and if it bogs down and I need to get more off the drum, then I have a second snatch block and a 50' extension. The second snatch block would take that 150' down to about 35' and give enough leverage that I start to worry about frame attachments.

Or If I am the recovery vehicle instead of the stuck one, I use the single pulley, and take the end of the line back to an anchor behind me and reduce the length that way. Anchoring the end of the cable to a second vehicle or anchor when snatching is a great way to spread the load on the frame attachments and take the strain off the winching vehicle if its not heavy enough to move the stuck guy. (Tricks you learn driving a CJ5).

Like when I had to recover this truck . . . .

Christmas 2014.jpg


Note: Events in photo may not accurately depict those discussed above. Don't believe everything you see on the internet.
 
Scott B. said:
At ARV this year, I spent some time talking with Mike from OEX. One thing he asked was, how long was my winch line? I responded 100 feet - how the winch came from Warn.

He told me that they like to cut the line down to 70 feet, and use the 30 foot piece as a winch extension. Less line on the drum means more pulling power. A shorter line means you have to pull it out less to get to the pulling power.

To me, this sounds like a good, although unconventional, idea. I have mentioned it to a couple friends of mine (non-AAV folks) and they don't think it is a good idea. (I chalk that up to their limited world views.)

What do you folks think?

I ask here, knowing that most of you have expanded world views (like me ;))
Click to expand...

I agree. Check out competition winches used at events like KOH, short drums and short lines for quick use and maximum power.
 
Code Red said:
That all makes sense, but I have buried a spare tire in the shade of a tree that could have served as an anchor. I was soooooo close. It scarred me.

I want all the line I can get. I like my 8274 with 150', and if it bogs down and I need to get more off the drum, then I have a second snatch block and a 50' extension. The second snatch block would take that 150' down to about 35' and give enough leverage that I start to worry about frame attachments.

Or If I am the recovery vehicle instead of the stuck one, I use the single pulley, and take the end of the line back to an anchor behind me and reduce the length that way. Anchoring the end of the cable to a second vehicle or anchor when snatching is a great way to spread the load on the frame attachments and take the strain off the winching vehicle if its not heavy enough to move the stuck guy. (Tricks you learn driving a CJ5).

Like when I had to recover this truck . . . .

View attachment 48578

Note: Events in photo may not accurately depict those discussed above. Don't believe everything you see on the internet.
Click to expand...

There are ways to overcome a short line on a winch given the same amount of rope (Also demoed by Chris Cole at ARV) .

1st 75' line from the winch through block #1 gets you roughly 37.5' reach at x2 pulling power.

2nd 75' line from block #1 through block#2 back to the bumper gets you additional 18.75'or there about and 4x pulling power (Minus 37.5' from the bumper up to block #1 with the remaining 37.5' halved as it loops through block #2 back to block #1}. Reach is roughly 56.25'

3rd 50' line from block #2 to the anchor gets a total reach of 106.25' at x4 pulling power.

Pull distance is about 14' leaving enough line to not pull the block into the fairlead or rollers.

spanish burton.jpg
 
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The trade-off with the short winch line looks to be pull length. @Code Red

You're 35' loop through 2 blocks with the 50' extension has a reach of 85' but you have 30'+ pull available to you as oppose to a 14' pull with a reach of up to 106'. It makes sense. A shorter winch line means doubling up less line and gets you a longer reach. The trade-off is a reduction of the max distance of your pulls before you have to reset.

Given this someone can work backwards. Make the decision based on what type of recoveries they expect most of the time. If you're moving just enough to get unstuck or if you're pulling yourself or something out of a bog.
 
Another bonus to a shorter line on the drum is it's easier to keep the line dressed. I've seen a lot of long pulls get messy because the line bunched up on one side of the drum. Also seen some get jammed because the line gets crossed over itself on the dumb.

As far as the old cronies saying longer is better, my retort is usually, "how do you eat an elephant?" ~~~ "one bite at a time." When it comes to a nasty recovery I'd rather take a lot of smaller bites with appropriate gear resets rather than make one long mythical 100' pull and risk overheating the winch in the process (because winches have a duty cycle a lot lower than most people realize).
 
Dean said:
When it comes to a nasty recovery I'd rather take a lot of smaller bites with appropriate gear resets rather than make one long mythical 100' pull and risk overheating the winch in the process (because winches have a duty cycle a lot lower than most people realize).
Click to expand...

This!
 
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