Replacing my dual batteries, Charging issue?

Maxcustody

Maxcustody

Adventurist
Not really a mod I wanted to do.................had to order 2 new batteries they will be here next Friday. I went with North Star this time.

I have a dual battery setup and for some reason the starter battery has been dead a few times. Luckily I can link them together and it fires up, however not sure what the issue is..........Seems like it happens when it is the coldest. I am now living in West Virginia and no longer in California so maybe it was going bad and not as noticeable due to not being cold enough in California to bring it down. I think I may have let it go too low while camping, however not sure how that worked either due to my fridge being hooked up to the other battery. I have been off work due to an injury so the truck has not been going anywhere for days at a time.I have 2 Odyssey PC1400's, they are probably 2 years old. I have nothing drawing power I am aware of, I even disconnected my scan gauge which has been plugged in, thinking it may be that. I also turned off the breaker to all the rear outlets since nothing is back there right now anyway. I did take it in to Toyota, I was there getting my TPMS uploaded and had them test the batteries. Tech said he thinks it may be a charging issue. Starter battery was not registering same as other battery, other was full and starter was very low that tech said it told him to recharge to get a good reading.

When I get the new ones I will top them off and ensure everything is wired correctly before installing the new ones. I am no electrical guy, so a little puzzled...............any suggestions? I have the blue sea ACR as well as my isolator.

Here are some pics of current set up and new batteries I am replacing them with..................

20190304_134616 (1).jpg
20190304_135350.jpg
20190304_134604.jpg
s-l300.jpg
15af05c2-2d90-453b-b032-4e8b1c73e27f.png
 
It sounds like a drain or a battery issue. It doesn't sound like a charging issue to me, because the Blue sea is linking the batteries together when they're charging. If you have a charging issue, then you should see it with both batteries. That's pretty simple to test as well. Just read the voltage on each battery with the engine running and see what you're getting. Both should be the same, and on most cars that should be somewhere around 14.4 volts.

On a Toyota, it may be 13.4v (even less at idle) by design. 13.4 is probably fine for flooded lead acid batteries, but is too low for most high-end AGM's. Odysseys are great batteries, but they have specific charging requirements. Internet wisdom says that 13.4v is too low to keep an Odyssey Battery happy. Some people say it will kill an Odyssey in a few years, others say they have 8-year old Odysseys that prove it won't.

The Odyssey manual says it needs 14.7v and life falls off significantly (150 cycles vs. 300+) if you are charging as low as 14.2v. My 1990 FJ62 sits around 13.1 - 13.4 running down the interstate. I have never seen it above 13.8, and it often drops below the Blue Sea cut-off (12.8?) at stop lights. I suspect it would be an unhappy place for an Odyssey battery. I am told that newer Toyotas also, by design, charge at lower voltages than other manufacturers, but I don't know how low.

Some manufacturers, even the very good ones, are a little cagey about the recommended charging voltages. Odyssey is upfront about it, but I think they have experienced some controversy related to customers undercharging the battery and then bashing the product. I couldn't find the charging voltage for the Northstars.

https://www.odysseybattery.com/documents/US-ODY-TM-002_1214.pdf around page 14.
 
I've had a bad ground discharge a battery before. Had to replace the entire wiring harness for my battery system. So double check all your connections.

As mentioned Odysseys are voltage hungry, so a normal dual battery system will *NOT* fully charge them. You'll need a DC-DC charger that can properly regulate voltage in, as well as condition the batteries to keep them in peak health.
 
For what it's worth, on my '06 Duramax with factory dual batteries, I've had factory batteries, Optima's (yellow top), Exide and now North Stars. I could have saved myself a lot of headaches going with the North Stars right from the jump. I've been very happy with them so far.
 
Code Red said:
It sounds like a drain or a battery issue. It doesn't sound like a charging issue to me, because the Blue sea is linking the batteries together when they're charging. If you have a charging issue, then you should see it with both batteries. That's pretty simple to test as well. Just read the voltage on each battery with the engine running and see what you're getting. Both should be the same, and on most cars that should be somewhere around 14.4 volts.

On a Toyota, it may be 13.4v (even less at idle) by design. 13.4 is probably fine for flooded lead acid batteries, but is too low for most high-end AGM's. Odysseys are great batteries, but they have specific charging requirements. Internet wisdom says that 13.4v is too low to keep an Odyssey Battery happy. Some people say it will kill an Odyssey in a few years, others say they have 8-year old Odysseys that prove it won't.

The Odyssey manual says it needs 14.7v and life falls off significantly (150 cycles vs. 300+) if you are charging as low as 14.2v. My 1990 FJ62 sits around 13.1 - 13.4 running down the interstate. I have never seen it above 13.8, and it often drops below the Blue Sea cut-off (12.8?) at stop lights. I suspect it would be an unhappy place for an Odyssey battery. I am told that newer Toyotas also, by design, charge at lower voltages than other manufacturers, but I don't know how low.

Some manufacturers, even the very good ones, are a little cagey about the recommended charging voltages. Odyssey is upfront about it, but I think they have experienced some controversy related to customers undercharging the battery and then bashing the product. I couldn't find the charging voltage for the Northstars.

https://www.odysseybattery.com/documents/US-ODY-TM-002_1214.pdf around page 14.
Click to expand...

Thank you Sir, excellent information.............hopefully Northstar will be better, plus I have ordered additional battery tender equipment to keep the new ones topped off.
 
Dean said:
I've had a bad ground discharge a battery before. Had to replace the entire wiring harness for my battery system. So double check all your connections.

As mentioned Odysseys are voltage hungry, so a normal dual battery system will *NOT* fully charge them. You'll need a DC-DC charger that can properly regulate voltage in, as well as condition the batteries to keep them in peak health.
Click to expand...

Thanks Dean, I will check this also...............
 
bob91yj said:
For what it's worth, on my '06 Duramax with factory dual batteries, I've had factory batteries, Optima's (yellow top), Exide and now North Stars. I could have saved myself a lot of headaches going with the North Stars right from the jump. I've been very happy with them so far.
Click to expand...

Thanks Bob, hoping this will be the case. Looking forward to the Northstar batteries and I will do a better job of keeping them topped off when the truck is sitting for a time.................
 
From my understanding, Northstars are made by the same company that makes Odysessy batteries. They are, effectively, just a rebrand/relable. I could be mistaken, but Odyssey's parent company EnergySys makes all kinds of batteries. They use to make the DieHard Platinums which were a great battery in their day.
 
Dean said:
From my understanding, Northstars are made by the same company that makes Odysessy batteries. They are, effectively, just a rebrand/relable. I could be mistaken, but Odyssey's parent company EnergySys makes all kinds of batteries. They use to make the DieHard Platinums which were a great battery in their day.
Click to expand...

After doing some reviews on odyssey before ordering northstar, some reviews were not very favorable towards odyssey. Some have said quality is changing and they are not what they used to be. However everyone has differing opinions on the internet.......
 
I know Optima's quality took a trip into the shitter when they relocated manufacturing. Their quality control is junk. I can't tell you the number of returns I got on Optimas when I was working at 4wp. So many returns. Never once got an Odyssey returned. I know most issues I've heard about with Odyssey's are related to improper charging and conditioning. But again, like you said, lots of varying opinions on the internet.
 
Dean said:
I know Optima's quality took a trip into the shitter when they relocated manufacturing. Their quality control is junk. I can't tell you the number of returns I got on Optimas when I was working at 4wp. So many returns. Never once got an Odyssey returned. I know most issues I've heard about with Odyssey's are related to improper charging and conditioning. But again, like you said, lots of varying opinions on the internet.
Click to expand...

Definitely read the same on optima quality concerns and that is what made me steer clear from them.
 
I ran Optima's for years, installed it and forgot about it. Not so much with the new ones, horrible luck with them holding a charge.
 
IMO, you have two issues going on. Charge voltage and Smart alternator/2 batteries.

AGM batteries like/require a higher charging voltage do than flooded cell batteries. Your charging system is putting out 13.5 - 14.0 volts, and the batteries prefer 14.7. This problem can be remedied on older vehicles (like my 2nd Gen) by swapping in a diode in the Alt-S circuit. (See thread on Tacoma World) Unfortunately, there is no easy way to do this on the 3rd Gen trucks.

Secondly, we have "smart alternators" on our trucks. What is smart about them is the way they measure voltage. Without getting into technical details, once the charging system sees the "full" voltage, charging stops. In other words, with 2 batteries tied together with an ACR, once 1 battery is charged, the other one will stop being charged - and never reach full charge. The better to wire dual batteries today is to utilize a DC-DC charger to charge the second battery. (Mitch and I had a discussion about this when I was planning my dual battery installation.)
 
Scott B. said:
IMO, you have two issues going on. Charge voltage and Smart alternator/2 batteries.

AGM batteries like/require a higher charging voltage do than flooded cell batteries. Your charging system is putting out 13.5 - 14.0 volts, and the batteries prefer 14.7. This problem can be remedied on older vehicles (like my 2nd Gen) by swapping in a diode in the Alt-S circuit. (See thread on Tacoma World) Unfortunately, there is no easy way to do this on the 3rd Gen trucks.

Secondly, we have "smart alternators" on our trucks. What is smart about them is the way they measure voltage. Without getting into technical details, once the charging system sees the "full" voltage, charging stops. In other words, with 2 batteries tied together with an ACR, once 1 battery is charged, the other one will stop being charged - and never reach full charge. The better to wire dual batteries today is to utilize a DC-DC charger to charge the second battery. (Mitch and I had a discussion about this when I was planning my dual battery installation.)
Click to expand...

Thanks for this info. Do you think I will have same issue with Northstar? Is there a good link on replacing ACR and going DC to charge second battery?
 
Maxcustody said:
Thanks for this info. Do you think I will have same issue with Northstar? Is there a good link on replacing ACR and going DC to charge second battery?
Click to expand...

Northstar is an AGM just like Odyssey. Yes, it prefers a higher charging voltage.

You can look in my build thread (near the end) to see how I wired up my charger. The charger I used is a CTEK D250SA - they have information and the user manual available on their site.

Wiring it is really simple, though.

IMO, the only drawback of the DC-DC setup is you cannot tie the batteries together with the flip of a switch to jump start the truck. Actually, that is one reason I have 2 of the same size batteries - if need be, I can physically move the secondary to the starting battery location, to run the truck.
 
Scott B. said:
Northstar is an AGM just like Odyssey. Yes, it prefers a higher charging voltage.

You can look in my build thread (near the end) to see how I wired up my charger. The charger I used is a CTEK D250SA - they have information and the user manual available on their site.

Wiring it is really simple, though.

IMO, the only drawback of the DC-DC setup is you cannot tie the batteries together with the flip of a switch to jump start the truck. Actually, that is one reason I have 2 of the same size batteries - if need be, I can physically move the secondary to the starting battery location, to run the truck.
Click to expand...

Thank you!
 
Two things I forgot to mention:

- the CTEK DC-DC charger can be set to charge at ~14.7 volts for AGM batteries. Problem solved there.
- some people will use an external charger, once a month or so, to top off their AGM starting battery. You could do this until a way to increase your truck's charging voltage is figured out.
 
Scott B. said:
Two things I forgot to mention:

- the CTEK DC-DC charger can be set to charge at ~14.7 volts for AGM batteries. Problem solved there.
- some people will use an external charger, once a month or so, to top off their AGM starting battery. You could do this until a way to increase your truck's charging voltage is figured out.
Click to expand...

Thanks again......going to go this route. Looking for best buy on the CTEK
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom