Corona Virus, general conversation

Mike

Adventurist
Founding Member
Something that I think doesn't really get talked about is what I feel is this 14 day self quarantine. Since this virus can be in someone for 4 days or so before symptoms are shown but are still contagious during those 4 days, every time you come in contact with anyone outside of your own personal environment, you basically reset that 14 day clock. Since you have no way to know who is or isn't infected, you have to assume everyone is. I think this is the biggest thing being missed by so many, especially younger folks. One person has the potential to infect thousands of people due to each person's resulting contact with other people.

People really need to stay home and ONLY go out for needed essentials. This DOES NOT mean going out camping or to the beach. I am very happy to see AAV put out their article and stance on this and it identifies the need and reason why people need to stay home. Does this suck? Heck yes it does but we need to slow/stop this spread. We need to do our parts, which is not the fun thing to do but the right thing to do. Until there is some containment and control of this virus, people will be out of work, the global economy will continue to spiral out of control and people will DIE.

Myself have cancelled appointments and events. Even if the risk is very minimal, is any risk acceptable at this time for anything non essential? For my wife and I, we don't feel it is and are taking appropriate steps to limit our exposure and exposure to others. Everyone NEEDS to do their part.

Stay safe, stay well and stay home!
 
We are just staying in. I do need to keep my cardiologist appointment, though. I have sleep apnea and Afib. I have had these for decades, since I was in my late teens and in great physical condition. Fortunately, my CPAP can double as a makeshift ventilator for me.
 
The loss of taste and smell could be crucial warning signs in “hidden carriers” of the novel coronavirus, experts have revealed.

The British Association of Otorhinolaryngology — which represents ear, nose and throat specialists — says the loss of senses often appears in
patients who show none of the earlier known symptoms.

“In young patients, they do not have any significant symptoms such as the cough and fever, but they may have just the loss of sense of smell and taste,” the association’s president, professor Nirmal Kumar, told Sky News.

The association said in a statement that anosmia or hyposmia — the medical terms for the loss of smell — have particularly been noted in COVID-19 hotspots around the globe.

“There have been a rapidly growing number of reports of a significant increase in the number of patients presenting with anosmia in the absence of other symptoms,” the statement says. “Iran has reported a sudden increase in cases of isolated anosmia, and many colleagues from the US, France, and Northern Italy have the same experience.”

In Germany, almost two-thirds of patients have reported losing their sense of smell, while in Korea almost a third have even in “otherwise mild cases.”

“These patients may be some of the hitherto hidden carriers that have facilitated the rapid spread of COVID-19,” they added.

If wider known, the loss of senses could force carriers into quarantine earlier, slowing the spread, the association hopes.
 

Road

Adventurist
The loss of taste and smell could be crucial warning signs in “hidden carriers” of the novel coronavirus, experts have revealed.

The British Association of Otorhinolaryngology — which represents ear, nose and throat specialists — says the loss of senses often appears in
patients who show none of the earlier known symptoms.


“In young patients, they do not have any significant symptoms such as the cough and fever, but they may have just the loss of sense of smell and taste,” the association’s president, professor Nirmal Kumar, told Sky News.

The association said in a statement that anosmia or hyposmia — the medical terms for the loss of smell — have particularly been noted in COVID-19 hotspots around the globe.

“There have been a rapidly growing number of reports of a significant increase in the number of patients presenting with anosmia in the absence of other symptoms,” the statement says. “Iran has reported a sudden increase in cases of isolated anosmia, and many colleagues from the US, France, and Northern Italy have the same experience.”

In Germany, almost two-thirds of patients have reported losing their sense of smell, while in Korea almost a third have even in “otherwise mild cases.”

“These patients may be some of the hitherto hidden carriers that have facilitated the rapid spread of COVID-19,” they added.

If wider known, the loss of senses could force carriers into quarantine earlier, slowing the spread, the association hopes.
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I saw that last night, and have been more keenly aware of tastes and odors today :oops:

If it proves to be true in more places, could be a great canary in the mine sort of indicator.

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Dave

Adventurist
Founder
Senior Staff
Editor
A Medical Worker Describes Terrifying Lung Failure From COVID-19 — Even in His Young Patients

“It first struck me how different it was when I saw my first coronavirus patient go bad. I was like, Holy shit, this is not the flu. Watching this relatively young guy, gasping for air, pink frothy secretions coming out of his tube.”

As of Friday, Louisiana was reporting 479 confirmed cases of COVID-19, one of the highest numbers in the country. Ten people had died. The majority of cases are in New Orleans, which now has one confirmed case for every 1,000 residents. New Orleans had held Mardi Gras celebrations just two weeks before its first patient, with more than a million revelers on its streets.

I spoke to a respiratory therapist there, whose job is to ensure that patients are breathing well. He works in a medium-sized city hospital’s intensive care unit. (We are withholding his name and employer, as he fears retaliation.) Before the virus came to New Orleans, his days were pretty relaxed, nebulizing patients with asthma, adjusting oxygen tubes that run through the nose or, in the most severe cases, setting up and managing ventilators. His patients were usually older, with chronic health conditions and bad lungs.

Since last week, he’s been running ventilators for the sickest COVID-19 patients. Many are relatively young, in their 40s and 50s, and have minimal, if any, preexisting conditions in their charts. He is overwhelmed, stunned by the manifestation of the infection, both its speed and intensity. The ICU where he works has essentially become a coronavirus unit. He estimates that his hospital has admitted dozens of confirmed or presumptive coronavirus patients. About a third have ended up on ventilators.

As of Friday, Louisiana was reporting 479 confirmed cases of COVID-19, one of the highest numbers in the country. Ten people had died. The majority of cases are in New Orleans, which now has one confirmed case for every 1,000 residents. New Orleans had held Mardi Gras celebrations just two weeks before its first patient, with more than a million revelers on its streets.

I spoke to a respiratory therapist there, whose job is to ensure that patients are breathing well. He works in a medium-sized city hospital’s intensive care unit. (We are withholding his name and employer, as he fears retaliation.) Before the virus came to New Orleans, his days were pretty relaxed, nebulizing patients with asthma, adjusting oxygen tubes that run through the nose or, in the most severe cases, setting up and managing ventilators. His patients were usually older, with chronic health conditions and bad lungs.

Since last week, he’s been running ventilators for the sickest COVID-19 patients. Many are relatively young, in their 40s and 50s, and have minimal, if any, preexisting conditions in their charts. He is overwhelmed, stunned by the manifestation of the infection, both its speed and intensity. The ICU where he works has essentially become a coronavirus unit. He estimates that his hospital has admitted dozens of confirmed or presumptive coronavirus patients. About a third have ended up on ventilators.

"The lung is filled with so much fluid, displacing where the air would normally be."

“It’s called acute respiratory distress syndrome, ARDS. That means the lungs are filled with fluid. And it’s notable for the way the X-ray looks: The entire lung is basically whited out from fluid. Patients with ARDS are extremely difficult to oxygenate. It has a really high mortality rate, about 40%. The way to manage it is to put a patient on a ventilator. The additional pressure helps the oxygen go into the bloodstream.

“Normally, ARDS is something that happens over time as the lungs get more and more inflamed. But with this virus, it seems like it happens overnight. When you’re healthy, your lung is made up of little balloons. Like a tree is made out of a bunch of little leaves, the lung is made of little air sacs that are called the alveoli. When you breathe in, all of those little air sacs inflate, and they have capillaries in the walls, little blood vessels. The oxygen gets from the air in the lung into the blood so it can be carried around the body.

“Typically with ARDS, the lungs become inflamed. It’s like inflammation anywhere: If you have a burn on your arm, the skin around it turns red from additional blood flow. The body is sending it additional nutrients to heal. The problem is, when that happens in your lungs, fluid and extra blood starts going to the lungs. Viruses can injure cells in the walls of the alveoli, so the fluid leaks into the alveoli. A telltale sign of ARDS in an X-ray is what’s called ‘ground glass opacity,’ like an old-fashioned ground glass privacy window in a shower. And lungs look that way because fluid is white on an X-ray, so the lung looks like white ground glass, or sometimes pure white, because the lung is filled with so much fluid, displacing where the air would normally be.”

"This severity ... is usually more typical of someone who has a near drowning experience ... or people who inhale caustic gas."

“With our coronavirus patients, once they’re on ventilators, most need about the highest settings that we can do. About 90% oxygen, and 16 of PEEP, positive end-expiratory pressure, which keeps the lung inflated. This is nearly as high as I’ve ever seen. The level we’re at means we are running out of options.

“In my experience, this severity of ARDS is usually more typical of someone who has a near drowning experience — they have a bunch of dirty water in their lungs — or people who inhale caustic gas. Especially for it to have such an acute onset like that. I’ve never seen a microorganism or an infectious process cause such acute damage to the lungs so rapidly. That was what really shocked me.”

"You’ll try to rip the breathing tube out because you feel it is choking you ..."

“It first struck me how different it was when I saw my first coronavirus patient go bad. I was like, Holy shit, this is not the flu. Watching this relatively young guy, gasping for air, pink frothy secretions coming out of his tube and out of his mouth. The ventilator should have been doing the work of breathing but he was still gasping for air, moving his mouth, moving his body, struggling. We had to restrain him. With all the coronavirus patients, we’ve had to restrain them. They really hyperventilate, really struggle to breathe. When you’re in that mindstate of struggling to breathe and delirious with fever, you don’t know when someone is trying to help you, so you’ll try to rip the breathing tube out because you feel it is choking you, but you are drowning.

“When someone has an infection, I’m used to seeing the normal colors you’d associate with it: greens and yellows. The coronavirus patients with ARDS have been having a lot of secretions that are actually pink because they’re filled with blood cells that are leaking into their airways. They are essentially drowning in their own blood and fluids because their lungs are so full. So we’re constantly having to suction out the secretions every time we go into their rooms.”

"I do not want to catch this."

“Before this, we were all joking. It’s grim humor. If you are exposed to the virus and test positive and go on quarantine, you get paid. We were all joking: I want to get the coronavirus because then I get a paid vacation from work. And once I saw these patients with it, I was like, Holy shit, I do not want to catch this and I don’t want anyone I know to catch this.

FULL ARTICLE WITH PHOTOS
 
We closed our fitness facilities as of last week. We are still operating Cardiac Rehab in a class size limited to 5 people and we are still doing outpatient PT, although that volume is down 50%. I worry about some of the potential government over reach that is/could happen. If you look a the current version of the potential Covid - 19 bail out legislation you can see what I mean. Power grabbing and ideology pushing instead of a plain and simple bill to make sure Americans are taken care of to the best of our ability in regard to the current crisis. I believe they are hoping no one is watching so they can approve whatever they want.
 
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Dave

Adventurist
Founder
Senior Staff
Editor
We closed our fitness facilities as of last week. We are still operating Cardiac Rehab in a class size limited to 5 people and we are still doing outpatient PT, although that volume is down 50%. I worry about some of the potential government over reach that is/could happen. If you look a the current version of the potential Covid - 19 bail out legislation you can see what I mean. Power grabbing and ideology pushing instead of a plain and simple bill to make sure Americans are taken care of to the best of our ability in regard to the current crisis. I believe they are hoping no one is watching so they can approve whatever they want.
It is a national disgrace.

That said, American Adventurist is apolitical so I will bite my tongue here.
 

Road

Adventurist
It is a national disgrace.

That said, American Adventurist is apolitical so I will bite my tongue here.
Many things I would like to say, but they would be deleted. Keeping this site non-political is a blessing.
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Amen. Too many adventure and other forums are too chock full of rabid position-taking and venomous posts. I appreciate the efforts to keep that from happening here.
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theirs a lot of stupid foolish people in this country, we had a older couple here from Arkansas who came back from Germany 3 1\2 weeks ago who live 1 hour 40 minutes West of us. Both gone to Sunday church services with fevers & both later on tested positive of CoronaVirus. They most likely infected a good portion of 150 members of their church. I can not understand people why they do the things they do......flat ass bewilders me.
Sally & I decided to hunker down & play it safe by social distancing our selves. All offroad adventures will come to a stop & be put on the back burner, church attendance for us has came to a stop until this passes. Sally still works & drives 38 minutes East of us to the hospital she works at. Patient Census is real low @ the hospital, she busy ordering, tracking supplies & going to meetings on this CoronaVirus & it's starting to wear on her. The facility (Medical Center) she works @ has only one entrance open taking temps on every one that enters. The cafeteria is closed off to the public, vistors. It's open to employees\staff & patients only.
Minimal trips to town is our game plan, we live in a small mountain community of 450 population. My 50 acre farm keeps a decent distance of separation of neighbors. We have 2 deep freeze freezers full of venison & meat (beef, pork, chicken & catfish), plenty of can goods, rice & beans. The liquor cabinet is stocked, plenty of beer & BBQ wood to Q up some good chew'n & swallow'n. The work on the farm will keep me occupied & Arkansas spring turkey season hunt is just around the corner & I have been hearing lots of gobbling on my property.
I still read on Facebook & view all the drama & chaos post, the same Facebook group of Arkansas campers\dispersed campers still complaining about park closures & not camping, these are (RVer's). Many dispersed camper on the group are hunkered down & staying put. Some are fighting & arguing about why are they putting themselves & others at risk as they should stay home. It's somewhat entertaining for me.
Lucky the news network I watch OAN One American News you can get most of the news in a hour, thank GOD theirs no drama or sensationalism on this network.
 
So something like 8 states, ~1/3 of the population, have stay at home orders now, but the definition of "essential" is so broad as to be next to meaningless. While this allows certain businesses to remain open, it also exposes the majority os people to this virus(potentially). These orders leave a smaller, but significant, portion of the working population without a means of supporting themselves and/or families.

I do understand that keeping people working may reduce the economic catastrophy coming. I could some how validate this IF there was enough PPE and medical grade cleaning products available.

The Mayor of Denver is announcing Shelter In Place.
 

Haggis

Adventurist
Senior Staff
Founding Member
Our plant is firing back up. Not so much for our main lumber products but for our high quality kiln dried sawdust and pulp. Normally it goes to a composite deck board plant but will be redirected to a plant that makes the grade paper for healthcare masks.

Those of us in the management role are meeting up early to go over and implement the crises management safety procedures. Employee participation is voluntary and if they refuse they will still be eligible for unemployment. Depending on who and how many participle we will adjust our production schedule to suit. As my wife and daughter are in the front lines in the healthcare theater, I still stand less of a chance of contagion at work than from them bringing it home.

I just got my mind to accept being off and than the situation changes yet again. Adaptability and awareness are the keys to this I figure.
 

Dave

Adventurist
Founder
Senior Staff
Editor
Our plant is firing back up. Not so much for our main lumber products but for our high quality kiln dried sawdust and pulp. Normally it goes to a composite deck board plant but will be redirected to a plant that makes the grade paper for healthcare masks.

Those of us in the management role are meeting up early to go over and implement the crises management safety procedures. Employee participation is voluntary and if they refuse they will still be eligible for unemployment. Depending on who and how many participle we will adjust our production schedule to suit. As my wife and daughter are in the front lines in the healthcare theater, I still stand less of a chance of contagion at work than from them bringing it home.

I just got my mind to accept being off and than the situation changes yet again. Adaptability and awareness are the keys to this I figure.
This is good news, we really need the masks and such.

:thumbsup
 

Mike

Adventurist
Founding Member
Man I keep seeing posts in a number of "overland" FB groups, where people are upset plans and vacations are having to be cancelled or they have loaded up the family and head out to some destination. They seem to think things will blow over in a couple weeks.

Folks, wake up! We are looking at at least 3+ months. China got hit back in December and just last week started to see it level out with no new reported case. That's 3+ months! We are just in the beginning of this. People really need to wake up and get serious about this.
 

Road

Adventurist
Man I keep seeing posts in a number of "overland" FB groups, where people are upset plans and vacations are having to be cancelled or they have loaded up the family and head out to some destination. They seem to think things will blow over in a couple weeks.

Folks, wake up! We are looking at at least 3+ months. China got hit back in December and just last week started to see it level out with no new reported case. That's 3+ months! We are just in the beginning of this. People really need to wake up and get serious about this.
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I know. Many have headed out to spots where they think they'll be the only ones, sometimes in caravans of vehicles together, only to find a mess of other people with the same idea, or finding by the time they get to a spot it has been ordered closed.

They are also running into and through communities who are afraid of outsiders coming in from larger towns and cities, perceiving them as being responsible in part for any infection and empty shelves. Some communities have issued Locals Only orders and are worried because they have no local hospital and are closing up town and fuel stops, etc.

All indications say 8-12 weeks or more just of shut-down stay-at-home measures, and that what we've been doing this past week is nowhere near aggressive enough to really slow the spread and flatten the curve so the health system and other support is not overwhelmed.

I believe stopping the stay-at-home after the '15 Days' would be a serious mistake and will allow the virus to increase with a vengeance.
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Doug

Adventurist
Senior Staff
Founding Member
So something like 8 states, ~1/3 of the population, have stay at home orders now, but the definition of "essential" is so broad as to be next to meaningless. While this allows certain businesses to remain open, it also exposes the majority os people to this virus(potentially). These orders leave a smaller, but significant, portion of the working population without a means of supporting themselves and/or families.
I manage a medium sized city and the definition of essential is so broad in the 12 pages of essential (exceptions) that probably 70-80% of my workforce is included. Much of the rest can work from home and we’ve had a few layoffs and furloughs of the remaining. The first order talked about infrastructure construction and the new order (after the building industry reached out) just says “construction, including housing construction.” It’s good for construction workers and contractors and kept my planning, building, and engineering staff from lay-off or reduction in hours but it leaves a very small percentage of workers staying home. Pretty much just non-food retail and a few others.
 
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