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I do not have diesel experience outside of my 2 tractors... but... if the diesels we were allowed to have in vehicles were like the tractors.. (damn... always run... always.) so simple and easy to maintain, run, etc.... I would be in for the long haul. The complexity of the modern engine that gives it so many convenient features is nice, but the simple "1 wire" diesel in my tractors is hard to argue with. Seems like the diesels in street vehicles are almost not related to the tractor engines...

And, I agree... it is all about gearing (and strength in the drivetrain) for crawling.

I can't argue with the hassles with modern diesels. If we could import modern 70 Series Land Cruisers to the US without all the EPA nonsense it would be a fantastic vehicle..
Like many things in life it's a trade off. On this trip the vehicles were equiped with long range fuel tanks and we still had to carry 80 L of additional diesel. We ended up transferring the fuel twice while on the trip while still in the bush. A gas engine would not have had the range to go where we did. In the US we're lucky in that we're rarely more than 150 miles or so from a gas station but that's not the case in many parts of the world.
 
Bobby I do agree that gearing is very important, along with a host of other factors. As far as I know we are discussing overlanding not rock crawling which I have no interest in or experience with..
The "rock crawler" was meant to be used as a point of reference for my comment. I'm also a diesel owner, my truck runs heavy and tows heavy at times. I will agree with you that I like the low end torque of my DuraMax for what I use it for.

What I was trying to say is it does not require a diesel engine for low speed control on a steep ascent or descent.

BTW, I'm envious as all get out of your trip. Do you have a trip report posted anywhere?
 
Tango I respect your (and others here) opinions.
As far as locking the axles were concerned on this expedition the only time we did that was in a rather deep river fording (in a straight line) where we wanted every bit of traction we could get in order to avoid getting stuck in 2 to 3 feet of running water.
Whew! Thanks - good to learn.

I've had a few folks with well-equipped vehicles who when preparing for a trail ride the first thing they did after turning on their engine was hit the lockers. :wow
 
I agree with @smlobx. Yes gearing can help facilitate that low-end grunt which we all covet (or at least most of us). But with a gasoline and diesel engine of comparable torque outputs, the gasoline will, generally-speaking, require lower (numerically higher) gearing in order to produce driving characteristics similar to that of the diesel. The real beauty of a diesel is that the low-end torque is already inherent to the engine, so you don't need to compromise fuel economy by going too low with the gearing.

The hilux's and other overseas 4x4's with fuel-sipping diesels are hard to beat in terms of efficiency and low-end torque....you'd really have to go overboard with the gearing on a v6 4runner to get driving characteristics that are even remotely close, which further degrades the already mediocre fuel economy.

I can't argue with the hassles with modern diesels. If we could import modern 70 Series Land Cruisers to the US without all the EPA nonsense it would be a fantastic vehicle..

FWIW, the newer LC 70's and Hilux's are starting to employ DPF's as well (they've been using EGR for a little bit now). They too seem to be having teething issues with the newer emissions systems. I'm sure Toyota will sort them out in the longrun.

Like many things in life it's a trade off. On this trip the vehicles were equiped with long range fuel tanks and we still had to carry 80 L of additional diesel. We ended up transferring the fuel twice while on the trip while still in the bush. A gas engine would not have had the range to go where we did. In the US we're lucky in that we're rarely more than 150 miles or so from a gas station but that's not the case in many parts of the world.

I think in most areas of North America, the range issue isn't a huge deal. I know that in parts of Canada and Alaska, fuel stops need to be planned appropriately. I think fuel costs, more than anything else, will incentivize some, though not all, truck owners to at least consider diesel engine options. Fuel is relatively cheap now. Lots of people driving around my neighborhood with empty 1/2 ton's for the cool factor alone. The next big jump in fuel prices will likely change that trend.
 
I think fuel costs, more than anything else, will incentivize some, though not all, truck owners to at least consider diesel engine options. Fuel is relatively cheap now. Lots of people driving around my neighborhood with empty 1/2 ton's for the cool factor alone. The next big jump in fuel prices will likely change that trend.

I just sold my full size diesel. In the 2+ years of owning and driving it, I came to the realization that the "fuel cost/economy" savings was a myth.

I've driven coast to coast and in all seasons and what I noticed was that by and large, diesel prices were as much OR MORE than gasoline everywhere I went. No real savings there at the pump, maybe pennies per gallon but overall I always felt like gas was cheaper. Not talking B20 either, I'm talking good old Diesel #2. I did get better fuel economy than my Tacoma overall, but gallon for gallon the cost averages out once the significantly more expensive diesel maintenance costs (DEF, oil changes, fuel filter changes, air filters) were accounted for.

Add in the lack of convenience factor in North America where diesel is the oddball fuel that many stations don't carry and yeah, it was not as good as I had hoped overall. I do like driving a diesel (unlimited POWER!), but the driving experience was outweighed by these other factors.
 
My V8 LS1 5.3L motor is getting the same fuel economy that my I4 3RZ 2.7L engine.

So there (notwithstanding over double the HP and TQ). :D

Fuel (87 octane) economy varies between 11.39 - 12.39 mpg; operating cost per mile is $0.166 per mile.
 
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Good read, Not much to add except, after many years of buying into the gotta have a diesel disease I found I prefer a gasser. I still have moments in which I feel like I need to go back to a mid-2000's coal burner until I see how much they are selling for. I have little interest in the new platforms, I don't like the idea of getting stuck in the middle of nowhere because a two dollar sensor failed.
 
I still have moments in which I feel like I need to go back to a mid-2000's coal burner until I see how much they are selling for.

Right? A quick tour of Craigslist in the Midwest reveals gently used models with rusty, perforated body panels still fetching ridiculous prices. Insanity o_O

Diesels do hold their value.
 
I just sold my full size diesel. In the 2+ years of owning and driving it, I came to the realization that the "fuel cost/economy" savings was a myth.

I've driven coast to coast and in all seasons and what I noticed was that by and large, diesel prices were as much OR MORE than gasoline everywhere I went. No real savings there at the pump, maybe pennies per gallon but overall I always felt like gas was cheaper. Not talking B20 either, I'm talking good old Diesel #2. I did get better fuel economy than my Tacoma overall, but gallon for gallon the cost averages out once the significantly more expensive diesel maintenance costs (DEF, oil changes, fuel filter changes, air filters) were accounted for.

Add in the lack of convenience factor in North America where diesel is the oddball fuel that many stations don't carry and yeah, it was not as good as I had hoped overall. I do like driving a diesel (unlimited POWER!), but the driving experience was outweighed by these other factors.

Well I definitely agree that you don't buy a modern diesel purely for the goal of saving money over a gasoline truck. As I've said before, you can save money with a diesel, if you own it long enough and drive quite a bit. But I suspect for the average owner, who'll likely keep his truck for 5-6 years tops, the allure of diesel has less to do with any cost savings and more to do with the towing/hauling performance and overall driving characteristics. Some people are into that kind of performance and are willing to pay for it.

As for diesel fuel prices and availability, I guess that varies based on where you live and explore. Diesel fuel is common enough in the northeastern parts of North America; gasoline is more common, but I've never had trouble finding diesel. In the northeastern US, it is generally priced .20-.30 cents more per gallon than gasoline, but in the rural fuel stations that price discrepancy is sometimes less pronounced. Moreover as I go into Canada, I realize that diesel can make a lot of sense since there are long stretches without fuel. And diesel fuel is usually priced the same as 87 octane up there, sometimes a little bit cheaper.
 
A quick tour of Craigslist in the Midwest reveals gently used models
In Minnesota during my search, "gently used" often meant 3-5 years old with mileage north of 125,000. One salesman told me that the engine was just getting broken in to which I replied that everything else on the truck was getting close to breaking down.
 
Right? A quick tour of Craigslist in the Midwest reveals gently used models with rusty, perforated body panels still fetching ridiculous prices. Insanity o_O

Diesel does hold their value.
Kind of depends on the model. I was happy to get $12k for my 6.0 ford. The truck was in amazing shape for pushing 200k miles, but after a good 5 year run of no issues, I got nervous that it was a ticking time bomb. I have found a few sub 100K mile 06 dodges out here in the dry Nevada climate for fair prices, but I still can't bring myself (yet) to pulling the trigger. That could change. I will say a smart buyer can find a good purchase that can almost be driven for free if they played the mileage vs resell timing and can trade in cash. The mid-2000 models offer some exceptional service life even at the higher prices and with strong resell value and most of the depreciation hit already taken, nice units can be found in the western states, if you don't need new.
 
This is phase 1 of my upgrade from a Tacoma. 2015 Ram 3500 gasser with 18k miles. Its the Laramie edition so it has many more bells and whistles than I would typically have but I got it for an amazing price.

Phase 2 happens Monday and I'll post a photo when its complete.

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I wouldn’t buy a “modern” diesel pickup with today’s regulations but my 2005 (still very modern, all things considered) Cummins 5.9 Dodge with an XP Camper, 75 gallons of water, and 62 gallons of fuel, gets significantly better mileage than my 4Runner V6 did when loaded for a trip and better than my V8 Land Cruiser does now, loaded or not.
 
Hmmm, I agree with everything everyone here has said about gas v. diesel.

So why am I still trying to figure out how to put a Cummins 2.8 in my land cruiser without my wife finding out?

Practicality and good sense are all fine and dandy, but I am not daily driving a 28-year old truck because its practical or makes sense. I'm driving it because it makes me smile. I think it would make me smile even more if it was a diesel. We don't do this stuff for a living. It's recreational, it's a hobby. There is an emotional aspect to it, that is as -perhaps more- important than the practical. Don't think miles-per-gallon. Think smiles-per-gallon.
 
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