Colorado Overweight?

hardhat

hardhat

Adventurist
Thinking of movin from my RAM 2500 to the Colorado Z2. Why? size, weight, manoevring on the trail, normal in-down, mileage, and cauz i like it.
Man questions: 1. When i put all my stuff on the vehicle, INCLUDING my dirt bike, my weight is over spec. (1,400 vs max spec of 1,100) I can add airlift bags to suplement the springs since i dont want to mash them or mess up the shocks. How much additional stress am i putting on the vehicle/brakes, bearings, etc. Normally, when over weight i wont be on aggressive trails. Note most of the weight gain is in teh bed, so the airlifts should help stabilize that.
2. Any concern about the rear tire (which would sit on the aluminum tail gate) causing a dent in the tailgate? The Z2 only comes with a 5 ft bed, so teh rear tire will be towards the end of the gate when down.
3. Any concern about the weight of the bike resting on the tail gate? (there are Dee Zee bed supports that will off load much of the weight to the back of the truck, but again, tail gate is alum and I'm not sure how the stress will be carried by the tailgate latch.)

I KNOW I could solve everything by going to a full size, but I want to move to a smaller vehicle. MY MAIN concern is the over-weight condition when loaded. WHo out there has experience with Tacos, etc. that are running overweight?

YES, i've asked guys at Chevy (dealers and corporate) and of course I cant get a straight answer (liability i assume). So i figure there's a LOT of experience in this group.

Thanks.
 
1. 7 kilo-Newtons (just do the math - duh); pfft... do we look like a bunch of automotive engineers here? :D Of course additional weight will put additional stress on vehicle components but they are typically "over-engineered" to capture the vast majority of owners who don't consider such limitations. But there is one inescapable fact - prolonged exposure to conditions beyond design parameters will accelerate wear.

2. yes, it's aluminum and much more malleable than steel, although this is irrelevant considering the gauge steel used in today's vehicles - it all will bend when unsupported. Now imagine what will happen with your tire there and then hit a bump - even restrained. Physics is a bitch.

3. yes, see # 2, above. Latches are typically designed to secure an object, not necessarily bear weight. What will happen are that the mounting surfaces will elongate due to repetitive stressors and eventually fail.

Ultimately, you're asking for a platform to perform tasks it is not designed for. You can do whatever you desire but ultimately you are going to pay more for it in the long haul by prematurely wearing out the truck or performing an extensive set of modifications to meet your load specifications.
 
First, thanks for your quick feedback TangoBlue. Second, some of us are engineers here (!). Seriously, the reason i asked THIS forum is because a lot of folks here have Taco's, 4Runners, Jeeps, etc. and have a lot of specific experience at running mid-size vehicles over spec'd weight limit in various terrains. And I ain't got much. My current ride is a Ram 2500 which, near as i can tell, doesn't have a weight limit. But it's big and cumbersom, and gets 11MPG, and we can't all be "Blackwagon" (who seems to be able to fit a Powerwagon where big trucks just shouldn't go...) If I add airlifts, that will manage the load on the springs, but you still get an extra 300 lbs, (out of a GVW of 6,000) and will that matter to the bearings, shocks, frame, etc.? I think not (and I can calculate the Newtons - or neutons). Also its only overweight when im on trips, not all the time during "normal" use. But I figured this was a the group to ask. (Obviously zero help from the chevy dealer). Re mods, i think the airlift was all the changes I planned (plus a support plate on the tale gate so the moto tire doesnt cause a crease - though the chevy dealer guy says hauling dirt bikes is no problem and guys do it all the time... Course, he would know. Right?

So im just trying to get a sense of scale here. Thanks for any help guys. Don't flame me too much. Just trying to learn a bit!
 
Actually, I was being serious. I'm the guy that did try to squeeze 10 pounds into a 5 pound sack of s... sugar. My 2001 Tacoma has a V8 LS1, front SAC with dual radius arm/coil-over front suspension, custom shocks and 63" springs in the rear, aux fuel tank, AND a few other assorted items TNTM.

To achieve my goal of a 1/2 ton out of a 1/4 ton truck (for the modifications performed and desired cargo carrying capacity) took a lot of modification and fabrication of components like the frame, brackets, etc. Working in an offroad customization and fabrication shop didn't hurt nor did that stay in a Holiday Inn Express.

And, if you talked to the Chevy dealer already - he knows all! :keyboard :rofl
 
I can't answer directly in terms of a mid size truck but having dealt with a Dodge 1500 at/near limits - it's very unsatisfactory. Brakes aren't just stressed - they are underpowered and thus dangerous. This is a chasing the dragon situation where one will try to add bags, better brakes, better everything but never quite get there. Many of us abide by a 20% margin on vehicle capacity but camper owners often go over GVWR but stay under GCWR.

If you have a tow setup (which would imply decent brakes and overall capacity to handle the total weight), then adding air bags or preferably Timbren style setup may work.

Speaking of campers, that may be an angle to search forums for people who have put a FourWheel or other camper on their Colorado - easily will get at limits you speak of and could have some experience and solutions.

This looks to have some useful info: https://www.coloradofans.com/forums...increasing-weight-capacity-tongue-weight.html
 
Many thanks from both for the input. The Colorado model im looking at (ZR2) does include a tow package rated to 5,000 and i do not plan to tow anything. Thats one of the reasons i thought i might be able to push it a bit on load weight. If the brakes are also rated to stop a 5,000 trailer, i was thinking a few hundred extra lbs shouldnt matter. (Moreover, the standard Colorado is tow rated to 7,000 and weight rated to 1,550 load weight, which is ABOVE my expected - so again, it seems the structure is there.) Also, i dont plan to do any aggressive off road stuff with teh motorcycle and gear in it (at least 400 lbs)... but of course a pot hole on the highway could have the same effect... TangoBlue's comments on frame elements, etc. was exactly the sort of insight im looking for and one of the reasons im looking at the colorado as opposed to the taco. I got a good look at the underside of the colorado at the auto show and its just way beefier than the taco (or the older ranger/colorado models).

Re the Timbren vs the airlift, ive used the airlift bags pretty successfully. it has the advantage of being able to add very adjustable suspension enhancements based on load as well as leveling the truck. (I.e. if i unload the motorcycle, i can let a bit of air out and keep the balance good.)

Also, as i look at how the weight is added, virtually all the weight is on the rear axel, with virtually none added to the front. I.e. most all added weight is in the bed. So adding the airbags would certainly level and stabilize the truck (which does NOT necessariliy mean all will be OK with the overloading. Only that I will be level when i careen off the road into a firey oblivion...)

Not trying to put a square peg in a round hole here. I just really like the idea of a truck with a smaller footprint if i can make it work. I want to think it through with folks that know more than I. I drove a friends colorado on a trail out near my place a couple weeks ago and it was a joy compared to my big Ram 2500. It'll still be my fault if things go sideways, but at least I will have made the best effort.

(i don't work in a customization shop, and dont no much about that stuff, but i can solde resistors - which is almost the same as welding, and I did stay in a holiday inn express last night... no, really... I did.)

Thanks so much for your advice. Your input is both thoughtful and helpful.
 
Any way to pare down the load? Typical dirt bike is <300lbs. How do you have 1400lbs of gear?
 
I think the frame on that truck will be the least of your worries. Suspension, steering, and brakes are how the truck controls the load. That's where I would concentrate.I've had good luck with airbags. My application was on an F350 so I don't know if that's applicable, but it worked well for me. A lot of the suspension and braking issues can also be addressed by how you load it.

In my experience, tow packages don't usually include better brakes. I bet that 5,000 lbs tow rating assumes trailer brakes. Most states require them over about 1,500lbs. That said, 300 lbs over for occasional trips shouldn't make a dramatic difference in brakes. It will drive differently, but a lot of that will depend on where you carry the weight. Heavier trucks seem to have larger brakes on the rear axle because the designers assume that's where the load will be. Mid size trucks don't seem to bias the brakes that way.

In the bed is not necessarily always better. As much weight as possible should be between the axles. The sweet spot for most midsize crew cabs is the back seat. Next best is the very front of the bed. Weight behind the rear axle, e.g., on an open tailgate, is much worse than weight between the axles. You can actually pivot on the rear axle and start to unload the front tires-reducing braking and creating understeer. Take it to a friendly set of scales, and you can watch the weight on the front axle come down while the total vehicle weight is going up. Sit outside Home Depot on a Saturday morning and you can watch ford rangers with a pallet of quickcrete in the bed doing wheelies on speedbumps. Better yet, watch a rollback wrecker loading a heavy truck - the front wheels often come a couple feet off the ground.

Amateurish guess - It might make sense to load the bike backwards. I don't ride, but it seems like the rear tire will be carrying most of the weight when you're not riding it. That will shift a little weight forward and take some stress off the tailgate.

Bottom line: 1,400 is a lot of weight for that truck, but its probably got a stronger frame than the c-channel in my 25-year old F350. Air bags will help with handling, and the brakes will stop it, but not like when it's empty. You'll probably mangle the tailgate, and it may drive like crap depending on how you load it. But at only 300 lbs over weight, it'll probably be the lightest truck at any gathering of "Overlanders."
 
Looking forward to seeing what you end up doing.

I looked hard at the ZR2 as more nimble, single-vehicle replacement for my RAM 2500/dual sport combo.
It doesn't make sense for me now, but with all the new smaller trucks coming out, that could change.
 
I won't comment on the main part of your query -- I know what I would do about 300# overweight but I'm not going to tell you to ignore weight limits in your nice new truck.
But I will comment on the bike load -- although it adds to your overall weight issue. How about a piece of c-channel rail like would be on a dedicated bike trailer to spread the weight and take some of the load off the tailgate?
Also be aware that the Z71 model (not sure about ZR2) will be tail up if unloaded, i.e., once the font tire crosses the end of the tailgate, you will be rolling downhill to the front of the bed. Several owners have complained about the end of the tailgate being higher off the ground than the rear end of the bed.
 
Again, thanks for the input. I'll provide more feedback so other's reviewing will get a complete picture:
1. 1400 lbs - by the time i add my fat but, a rooftop tent, recovery gear, gear, extra gas, water, etc. Got it on a spreadsheet! it does add up more than you'd think. Only way to get it down to 1,100 is mainly take out the bike. Sort of defeats the purpose. (Note: until i listed everything out, i had no idea the total weight was that high. And Im guessing a lot of folks are running with more weight then they think as well!)
2. CG of bike ends up being just a bit inboard of the axel. So ok. Though that does mean something like 50% of the weight will be on the tail gate. Perhaps reversint the bike might be a good idea. Ill check that out, but mainly im concerned about overall weight rather than load point.
3. Wt Distribution: I have it set up so weight is as forward as possible.
4. And yes, the reason i went to this board is athat a lot of overlander guys are running overloaded midsize trucks and other vehicles.
5. Of course i can go to a 1500 or stay with the 2500, but im trying to reduce trail footprint, and still want to take my bike. Thats the "circle" I am trying to "square".
 
I’m in the market for a new midsize truck and the ZR2 is on my short list as well.
Given the comments you made maybe you would consider the Z71 model which is available with a long bed. The weight carrying capacity is greater as well.
Of course you don’t get the off-road bells and whistles of the ZR2 but maybe that’s what you carry the bike for??
 
Sure i can stay with the full size, but Im looking for something easier to manage on the trails (and around town for that matter). The real frustration is that the Colorado in stock trim has a rated load of 1,463 lbs - which would be fine. (ANd is what got me started down this path.) But they derate it by 360 lbs for the ZR2. i dont think there is that much weigth added. I read that the derate the towing capacity not due to weight but due to the fact that there is less airflow to the engine and it would run hot. Im thinking that it may be that plus the fancy shocks and suspension on the Zr2 that causes the weight reduction. Which is why im wondering if a bit of support on the springs might not resolve the issue. That and an inate inability to leave well enough alone...
 
hardhat said:
I read that the derate the towing capacity not due to weight but due to the fact that there is less airflow to the engine and it would run hot. Im thinking that it may be that plus the fancy shocks and suspension on the Zr2 that causes the weight reduction. Which is why im wondering if a bit of support on the springs might not resolve the issue. That and an inate inability to leave well enough alone...
Click to expand...

I went through this on my Tacoma. The solution was upgraded springs, shocks, Timbrens, and brake upgrades. Then gears and...

It can be done, but beware. Once the dominos start falling, there may be no going back ;)
 
I do know a "couple" of folks running over-loaded Tacos. (And frontiers, and ...) In fact, that's what got me looking at the Colorado. Not to start a flame war, but the new version of the truck is way over-built compared to the last generation of mid-sized trucks. Full steel bed, true box-tube (not c-channel) frame rails, etc. Plus, as i said, in stock trim it already as a load weight of 1,463. So i think frame structure likely ok. Even a small trailer, without brakes (i.e. 1,500 lbs) adds a LOT more weight to the brake load then my load would add if you look at CGVR. So I don't think brakes or engine cooling would be the constraining issues (but gearing could be??). Axel weight is high enough. Tire capacity is much larger than expected gross. I figue if guys are running Tacos at 200+ lbs overwheight, (with added suspension support), maybe pushing the colorado a bit is not such a crazy idea??? Which lead me to the thought that the main issue here is supporting the springs and protecting the shocks at higher loads - which is pretty easy (and not too costly) to do ...

Interestingly, if i started with a stock colorado and did all/most of the things to it that the ZR2 has, i would end up with a truck with similar performance with the larger "approved" load capacity (plus a 6ft bed...) and probably similar or lower price. I think main thing I'd give up would be the front lockers (which could be added but not sure of the cost/benefit). But i wouldnt have the Zr2 stickers and my overlanding friends would think less of me...

Not being defensive and my general thinking now is to back away from this path based on some of the experience shared here. But I'm still interested in a better understanding. Thanks again for the input - especially those of you identifying the "areas of concern".
 
I'm guessing the lower rating has to do with how its sprung. Lighter softer springs to get the "offroad" ride.
 
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